NBN network.

[Geoff3DMN]

what he knows about internet and technology was relayed to him by someone smarter than him, no different to the rest of the nuftis

Of course it was... the difference between Turnbull and Abbott or Turnbull and Conroy is that Turnbull will at least listen to people with more knowledge.

Listening is the way people learn and I never said Turnbull had anything other than a 'basic' understanding.

Think of it as 5/10 and abbot and conroy as 2/10.

 

[KraftyPg]

Well you are very kind giving him that much credit, many thousands wouldn't. Although many thousands think the sun shines out his arse too so there is no accounting for the taste of many.

 

[BravoBrad]

You're confusing cellular wireless with fixed wireless and they are not the same technology, they don't work the same way and fixed wireless doesn't suffer most of the problems of cellular wireless (except for line of sight issues but that's a can you get it or not rather than a dropping out issue).

NBN Fixed Wireless is 4G, except for a few of the technical details it is basically the same as we use in our phones.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

NBN Fixed Wireless is 4G, except for a few of the technical details it is basically the same as we use in our phones.

4G mostly relates to the speed (there are a number of ITU defined standards). Those 'few technical details' you so dismissingly refer to are critical to the performance differences between the data performance of current mobile phone 4G networks and the data performance that the fixed wireless NBN system will have.

If you could put a high gain yagi-uda array on a fixed mast pointing at a line of site tower with low loss cable leading down to a wireless router inside your house and connect that to your phone and you were content to leave your phone in a fixed location and you weren't subject to over subscription (like current phone networks) then sure... you could match performance and get 50 odd mbit from your phone (but it still wouldn't be the same technology).

Since none of those things apply to the current commercial 4G phone networks it's an irrelevant comparison.

 

[terryc]

Wireless, irrespective of the band/method/treatment , the technology has fundamental flaws that does not <sic>majikally(</sic> disappear.

Adsl on copper also has funadmental flaws in the technology and you are write, it can be an absolute pain. Currently, mine disconnects almost as frequently as the old full time modem link did.

My point is that all country towns should receive fibre to their house/location and not be forced to accept second best "wireless" irrespective of what the proponents of wireless say.

 

[user 10312]

I like Turnbull in some ways. I think he would of made a better more progresvie leader and perhaps a better listener. However I think Conroy is far more passionate about his portfollio. He is one of the few that is truely across his brief.

Turnbull is so clever I'm going to end up with the last leg delivered by 35 year old copper twisted pair. That sits in a wet pit in the tropics. It's not the speed that concerns me, it's reliablility.

To think that NBN co will have to buy the aging copper network is just crazy. Telstra will be laughing all the way to bank. 'You want a aging copper network with heaps of maintenance. Here have it (at a price) we will concertrate on the rather profitable mobile network.'

 

[user 10312]

On a personal note. I'll be happy if they give wirless a big miss around here. It will interfere with my C Band (large dish) FTA international TV.

Although Australia is signatory to international aggreements in regards to satelite service cooperation and protection. ACMA thought it would be a good idea to use the lower end of C Band for wirless internet providers.

As i have mentioned. There is only so much spectrum and it's chockas already.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

My point is that all country towns should receive fibre to their house/location and not be forced to accept second best "wireless" irrespective of what the proponents of wireless say.

That's not a technical argument, it's a financial issue and sure I agree if all country towns could get fibre but as has been pointed out elsewhere to decrease the current 'towns over 1000 residents' to 'towns over 250 residents' which would take fibre coverage from 93% to 96% would cost roughly an extra 16 billion dollars.

Think of that option as NBN supersized if you like but personally I don't think it's worth the extra money where as the extra cost of the standard NBN over the coalitions FTTP mini NBN is money better spent.

At the end of the day ya pays ya money and ya gets what ya pays for.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

There is only so much spectrum and it's chockas already.

You'll lose part of your FTA sat TV and I'll lose part of one of my Amateur radio bands but both of use are parts of small user groups.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one

 

[siringo]

Back in the mid 90's Optus and Telstra rolled out fibre around the more affluent suburbs. The fibre went past the front of your house and if you wanted it, you rang up and ordered it.

We live in a town of over 1000, but there's paddocks inbetween me and 1 neighbour, 100 metres to another and another paddock to another and nothing over the road.

If fibre gets rolled out in country towns I'll be bloody amazed, it can't be financially justified.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

If fibre gets rolled out in country towns I'll be bloody amazed, it can't be financially justified.

In smaller country town I agree, it can't be justified however there are lobby groups springing up all over the place thinking that somehow there small town is special and that the NBN will make an exception for them.

The standard NBN response is to mention the 'user pays' fibre network extension options.

Basically if you want fibre outside the fibre footprint then you or your council or your business will have to pay the extra cost (which seems like a fair compromise to me).

 

[terryc]

Back in the mid 90's Optus and Telstra rolled out fibre

It was Co-Axial copper cable and not Fibre optic cable which is what the NBN is.

We live in a town of over 1000, but there's paddocks inbetween me and 1 neighbour, 100 metres to another and another paddock to another and nothing over the road.

If fibre gets rolled out in country towns I'll be bloody amazed, it can't be financially justified.

That is exactly why the barrier should not be set at town population, but something more cost effective, like housing density. Especially since there would be fibre to the local exchange anyway.

The other thing to keep in mind, is the cost/metre of installation in those areas is going to be cheaper(big ripper) than in urban areas(under boring and dodging services(water, gas and maybe electricity) everywhere. The whining when Telstra does a trench down an urban street is just incredible. Somehow lawn damage equates to involuntary castration or something.

Otherwise, the NBN is going to have to run copper anyway, or shell out for some above tree height towers and you end up with a crippled internet via satellite*.

*Based on comments from gamers and people watching videos, etc over the satellite services.

 

[terryc]

The standard NBN response is to mention the 'user pays' fibre network extension options.

Basically if you want fibre outside the fibre footprint then you or your council or your business will have to pay the extra cost (which seems like a fair compromise to me).

User pays is never a "fair" compromise. It is simply the "screw you jack, I'm alright, so fsck you" political approach.

People complain about the problems of the manufacturing industry, but there are also a number of areas where the government's user pays approach crippled what was world leader Australia software companies. Other governments didn't charge companies for data that taxpayers had already paid to collect.

Either we believe in a fair go for everyone, as in the past or Australia is finally admitting that it is just another bunch of greedy arse holes that care only for themselves. Then you'd better start praying that the Aussie dollar doesn't get down to the historical norm of $AUS1/US.50c because the food producers in this country will screw you in return.

It certainly isn't going to be lost on them that the city folk received the good NBN and they got the crap again.

 

[Jason]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...ata-breakthrough/story-e6fredec-1226641319565

SAMSUNG Electronics says it has successfully tested super-fast fifth-generation (5G) wireless technology that will eventually allow users to download an entire movie in one second.

The South Korean giant says the test has witnessed data transmission of more than one gigabyte per second over a distance of two kilometres.

The new technology, which will not be ready for the commercial market before 2020 at the earliest, will offer transmitting speeds "up to several hundred times faster" than existing 4G networks, it said in a statement on Monday.

That will permit users to "transmit massive data files including high quality digital movies practically without limitation", it said.

"As a result, subscribers will be able to enjoy a wide range of services such as 3D movies and games, real-time streaming of ultra high-definition (UHD) content, and remote medical services," it added.

Samsung said it had found a way to harness millimetre-wave bands which have proved to be a sticking point for the mobile industry to date.

The test used 64 antenna elements, which the tech titan said overcame the issue of "unfavourable propagation characteristics" that have prevented data travelling across long distances using the bands.

One of the most wired countries on earth, South Korea already has around 20 million 4G users.

 

[Biscuits]

The actual data from samsung. States "up to" 2km, indicating that is a possible max distance for that level of speed.

That distance will be useful for CBD applications. But like all mobile tech, the more users you add, the shorter your range and lower you speeds become.

 

[BravoBrad]

Thats nearly (not really) as good as the 100 Terabits that was transmitted over a 165km length of fibre about a year ago. (I admit... that was 7 fibres pushing 15+ Terabits ps, but then again, they had 64 antennas)

 

[Jason]

LOL, it's brand new, they've only just tested it.

Give them a chance to improve it!

 

[Geoff3DMN]

Either we believe in a fair go for everyone, as in the past or Australia is finally admitting that it is just another bunch of greedy arse holes

Nope! There is a middle ground, where people can believe in a fair go for everyone but only as long as it's affordable.

The bucket of money is only so big, it only goes so far and there's only so much the government can do and expecting them to do everything will just lead to the same problem that Greece has... a bankrupt government.

So sure... spend the government money fairly and spend the same amount of dollars on every Australian but don't cry unfair because you want $10,000 of NBN value and aren't getting it when everyone else is only getting $2500 of NBN value.

 

[Black_Outlaw]

Most all people that work in or around IT *WANT* the NBN.. For the speed, the Monopoly it kills, the "Not having to pay $2k/mth" to Telstra for decent bandwidth.. It goes on and on..

Wireless is shared bandwidth - and as good as 4G was when it first rolled out and no one was on it - it is now slowing from all the handsets / USB Dongles now supporting it.

Copper is and ageing technology that *needs* replacing. It is tauted as costing Tel$tra $1bn a year in upkeep of this aging, decaying technology.

In this day and age, with all the devices that are now 'net enabled, it's criminal to limit people to that of ADSL type technologies. I for one can only get, an at best of, speed of 3mb/s over ADSL2+.

If Liberals do stop the NBN Fibre roll out, those area's that got Fibre connection from NBN would be leaps and bounds in front of the rest of Australia.. Fair?

Some interesting reading for those in the mood..
http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2013/02/21/3695094.htm

http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

 

[Nevyn]

My money is on Telstra not being far behind. As for fibre, I believe schools and hospitals already have access to it with super fast speeds. I read a news release stating they(schools) have yet to join the NBN because they're getting a better deal from Telstra(?) over their existing fibre network. I reckon we're going to end up with a 40 - something? billion dollar white elephant!