09 D22 dual battery setup
- Thread starter Aido
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CRC make that blue stuff in a can to spray on it. Can't remember the name of the top of my head though.
EDIT: Here is one type of CRC, don't know if it is the one i was thinking of.
http://crcind.com.au/battery-terminal-protector
Next time i'm in the QFRS workshop i'll have a closer look at the can.
EDIT: Here is one type of CRC, don't know if it is the one i was thinking of.
http://crcind.com.au/battery-terminal-protector
Next time i'm in the QFRS workshop i'll have a closer look at the can.
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Joshp82
Member
you can get the blue stuff from super cheap in little plastic bags. near the brake pad anti squeal and locktight. if i go past one ill get a photo for you
RustyNav09
Member
yeh josh i saw those a couple of weeks ago but sorta through me off in the lil bags they are in lol.
anyways i found a crc product but havent purchased it yet.
1. Lectra Clean - this is just a degreaser for electrical terminals etc
2/ Lectra Shield - most of the cars these days have a dry film on there electrical components either battery or terminal somewhere. this is the film they use.
3. Di-Electric Grease - im not sure on this one but it may be alright?
lectra shield may be the way to go but im still gonna sus out other products.
Rusty
anyways i found a crc product but havent purchased it yet.
1. Lectra Clean - this is just a degreaser for electrical terminals etc
2/ Lectra Shield - most of the cars these days have a dry film on there electrical components either battery or terminal somewhere. this is the film they use.
3. Di-Electric Grease - im not sure on this one but it may be alright?
lectra shield may be the way to go but im still gonna sus out other products.
Rusty
Hey Blokes,
I've got a few questions as I'm going around in circles asking the 4x4 shops as they just push what they are selling.
1. What size battery can you fit in an 09 D22 both passenger and driver side please, I like to fit a N70 size which is about 300mm long but it looks tight...
2. For my Deep cycle (passenger side) I'm considering an AGM/Cranker style battery like the Redback Thumper, will the alternator alone charge the deep cycle?
From what I've read on here the answer is no but the 4x4 shops selling a normal isolator say that an alternator can put out 100+ amps at over 14V which will "fully" charge the deep cycle.
3. What isolator/deep cycle battery did you go for any why?
Cheers
Ben
I've got a few questions as I'm going around in circles asking the 4x4 shops as they just push what they are selling.
1. What size battery can you fit in an 09 D22 both passenger and driver side please, I like to fit a N70 size which is about 300mm long but it looks tight...
2. For my Deep cycle (passenger side) I'm considering an AGM/Cranker style battery like the Redback Thumper, will the alternator alone charge the deep cycle?
From what I've read on here the answer is no but the 4x4 shops selling a normal isolator say that an alternator can put out 100+ amps at over 14V which will "fully" charge the deep cycle.
3. What isolator/deep cycle battery did you go for any why?
Cheers
Ben
Hi Ben.
Yes your alternator can put out a lot of current BUT it needs to run your car - that's everything, ECU, lights, computers, sensors - the works - call that about 40A at night. Your alternator only puts out full current when the engine is being run flat out. You aren't going to do that, so don't count on anywhere near full current being available because you aren't going to sit there on the freeway in 3rd gear just to keep your RPM up to charge the battery faster.
Besides, charging the battery depends on how much charge was used. If you have an Engel fridge and overnight your fridge drew 20A out of a 120Ah battery (as an AGM, that battery OUGHT to give you 80% of its capacity, or 96Ah - except you won't fully charge it with an alternator) - you'll replenish what you took in a short time.
Isolators work to protect the primary (starter, called "SLI" for "Starter, Lights, Ignition") so that it doesn't discharge and leave you stranded. The isolator will ensure that the SLI battery is on the way to a decent charge level before it opens up the power to the aux battery - that's a good thing. The down side is that it will only ever get the charge that an alternator can deliver - and in typical usage, that's around the 70-75% mark. Alternators (actually, the regulators) are designed to not charge batteries to 100% quickly, so that the fluid doesn't boil away. They WILL charge to 100%, but it takes a very long time to do it.
Faster charging to 100% capacity can be achieved by using either a DC-DC charger like C-Tek makes, or an inverter+smart charger. These won't charge at much more than 15/20A per hour, which might be what you're looking for - and they WILL provide the battery with 100% charge.
Personally, I have an Optima spiral wound 160Ah CORRECTION: 75Ah, 155mins RC deep cycle battery. It's one of the toughest batteries on the market - spiral wound AGMs were designed for military use. I can start the car with it if I need to. I charge mine with a modified sine wave inverter supplying a C-Tek charger (XS7000) at 7A.
Your choice of AGM battery is good. Don't bother looking at Gel batteries regardless of discount, because it'll break right when you need it most. Charging with an isolator is an acceptable solution - you should have 75%-20% = 55% available capacity from an alternator charge (75% battery charge, 20% is the lowest you should discharge to). That's a respectable 66Ah.
Yes your alternator can put out a lot of current BUT it needs to run your car - that's everything, ECU, lights, computers, sensors - the works - call that about 40A at night. Your alternator only puts out full current when the engine is being run flat out. You aren't going to do that, so don't count on anywhere near full current being available because you aren't going to sit there on the freeway in 3rd gear just to keep your RPM up to charge the battery faster.
Besides, charging the battery depends on how much charge was used. If you have an Engel fridge and overnight your fridge drew 20A out of a 120Ah battery (as an AGM, that battery OUGHT to give you 80% of its capacity, or 96Ah - except you won't fully charge it with an alternator) - you'll replenish what you took in a short time.
Isolators work to protect the primary (starter, called "SLI" for "Starter, Lights, Ignition") so that it doesn't discharge and leave you stranded. The isolator will ensure that the SLI battery is on the way to a decent charge level before it opens up the power to the aux battery - that's a good thing. The down side is that it will only ever get the charge that an alternator can deliver - and in typical usage, that's around the 70-75% mark. Alternators (actually, the regulators) are designed to not charge batteries to 100% quickly, so that the fluid doesn't boil away. They WILL charge to 100%, but it takes a very long time to do it.
Faster charging to 100% capacity can be achieved by using either a DC-DC charger like C-Tek makes, or an inverter+smart charger. These won't charge at much more than 15/20A per hour, which might be what you're looking for - and they WILL provide the battery with 100% charge.
Personally, I have an Optima spiral wound 160Ah CORRECTION: 75Ah, 155mins RC deep cycle battery. It's one of the toughest batteries on the market - spiral wound AGMs were designed for military use. I can start the car with it if I need to. I charge mine with a modified sine wave inverter supplying a C-Tek charger (XS7000) at 7A.
Your choice of AGM battery is good. Don't bother looking at Gel batteries regardless of discount, because it'll break right when you need it most. Charging with an isolator is an acceptable solution - you should have 75%-20% = 55% available capacity from an alternator charge (75% battery charge, 20% is the lowest you should discharge to). That's a respectable 66Ah.
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Thanks Tony,
So what's your set up under the bonnet? Two crankers with a simple iso or a cranker + deep cycle/cranker? What size batt did you fit in there? Any mods to make them fit?
I assume the 160AH Optima is in the ute tub or behind the back seat? Any reason you didn't go the Ctek 25AH jobby? I've got a 300w Pure sine wave inverter already so I'm half way there!
I'm now thinking for under the bonnet one primary cranker then simple iso to a cranker/Deep cycle wet cell (as not many AGM's can like the heat) then a redback thumper or optima behind the back seat charged by inverter/ctek charger.... thoughts?
So what's your set up under the bonnet? Two crankers with a simple iso or a cranker + deep cycle/cranker? What size batt did you fit in there? Any mods to make them fit?
I assume the 160AH Optima is in the ute tub or behind the back seat? Any reason you didn't go the Ctek 25AH jobby? I've got a 300w Pure sine wave inverter already so I'm half way there!
I'm now thinking for under the bonnet one primary cranker then simple iso to a cranker/Deep cycle wet cell (as not many AGM's can like the heat) then a redback thumper or optima behind the back seat charged by inverter/ctek charger.... thoughts?
In my case, my D40 doesn't have the room under the bonnet so my aux battery is over the right-hand wheel arch in the tub.
The problem with a 25A supply is that it will draw (say) 26A - might be a little more - to charge the battery and my alternator just may not be putting that out at cruise speed (1700-2000rpm). Also, and even more importantly, it would have killed the original 50Ah flooded cell batteries that I was charging with it. Now, of course, I could charge my AGM at C/3 = 53A, but the old flooded 50Ah would prefer C/10 = 5A but could tolerate c/5 = 10A. The 7A unit was perfect, it draws 15x7=105W + charger's power so a 300W inverter can run it forever without strain. A 25A charger would draw 15x25=375W so by the time the charger's circuit is accounted for, a 400W inverter is running flat out the entire time to drive it.
When I calculate the power, I use 15V - because that's what the C-Tek charges at. I always cater for worst-case - I consider how it'll charge at night with my driving lights on, I'll count solar hours for a winter's day etc. That way I'll rarely get stuck.
The problem with a 25A supply is that it will draw (say) 26A - might be a little more - to charge the battery and my alternator just may not be putting that out at cruise speed (1700-2000rpm). Also, and even more importantly, it would have killed the original 50Ah flooded cell batteries that I was charging with it. Now, of course, I could charge my AGM at C/3 = 53A, but the old flooded 50Ah would prefer C/10 = 5A but could tolerate c/5 = 10A. The 7A unit was perfect, it draws 15x7=105W + charger's power so a 300W inverter can run it forever without strain. A 25A charger would draw 15x25=375W so by the time the charger's circuit is accounted for, a 400W inverter is running flat out the entire time to drive it.
When I calculate the power, I use 15V - because that's what the C-Tek charges at. I always cater for worst-case - I consider how it'll charge at night with my driving lights on, I'll count solar hours for a winter's day etc. That way I'll rarely get stuck.
Thanks Tony,
With the alternator, it seems like a bit of guess work what AH it's putting out, can you fit an Amp gauge on it to be sure what it's putting out?
Your choice on the ctek makes sense now, have you seen this product? http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page166aaa.html
It looks like it would work similar to a redarc 40A but it has a remote control too.
Any other 09 D22 owners care to let me know if they have put in bigger batts under the bonnet? Might have to check some garages...
With the alternator, it seems like a bit of guess work what AH it's putting out, can you fit an Amp gauge on it to be sure what it's putting out?
Your choice on the ctek makes sense now, have you seen this product? http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page166aaa.html
It looks like it would work similar to a redarc 40A but it has a remote control too.
Any other 09 D22 owners care to let me know if they have put in bigger batts under the bonnet? Might have to check some garages...
I think the Sidewinder's a bit pricey when you put it alongside a charger like the C-Tek which you can get for $250 or so, and the C-Tek is an 8-stage charger with "Recover" and "Supply" modes (at least, the 7A and 15A versions are).
This means it can be used to equalise the batteries which reduces sulphation (reversing the progression of sulphation to a large degree) and it can be used as a 12V supply in case you need to keep power up while the battery is removed.
You could fit an ammeter - there is a 140A fusible link on the positive terminal of my car and I would imagine that yours has the same. Put an ammeter in line with that, one that reads up to 140A I guess!
This means it can be used to equalise the batteries which reduces sulphation (reversing the progression of sulphation to a large degree) and it can be used as a 12V supply in case you need to keep power up while the battery is removed.
You could fit an ammeter - there is a 140A fusible link on the positive terminal of my car and I would imagine that yours has the same. Put an ammeter in line with that, one that reads up to 140A I guess!
yeah but the ctek can't work without an inverter so another $150-$250ish? so $ wise it's similar but yeah you're right the 8 stage is a pro.
I think for me I'd like to get as many amps in to the batt and I can run a better charge at home. I think I like the extra info the sidewinder offers over the redarc style option.
I'll look in to the ammeter
I think for me I'd like to get as many amps in to the batt and I can run a better charge at home. I think I like the extra info the sidewinder offers over the redarc style option.
I'll look in to the ammeter
I'm using a 300W $79 modified sine wave inverter made by Powertech and sold by either Jaycar and Ray's Outdoors to drive mine. As an alternative you could use their DC-DC charger but I like the idea of having 240V around as well, if I need a small amount of 240V for something like a phone charger etc then at least I can do that too.
On the inverters - any inverter you get MUST be electrically isolated or you run a real risk of electrocuting yourself.
Watch the charge rate on the battery. Normal AGMs can tolerate about C/5 on average, so for the 120Ah I'd limit the incoming current to 24A. Note that your alternator has to be putting that much out, too - it might not, and I am not sure what underpowering the charger will do. By that, I mean I'm not sure what happens if the charger is trying to deliver 25A but the alternator can only spare 15A because of the low engine revs. My guess is the power supply will start hauling from the main battery.
There are a number of good reasons for limiting the charge rate! You can't idle the car and recharge the battery, because at idle the alternator can't deliver that many amps. It'll deliver 8-10A sure, but not 40.
On the inverters - any inverter you get MUST be electrically isolated or you run a real risk of electrocuting yourself.
Watch the charge rate on the battery. Normal AGMs can tolerate about C/5 on average, so for the 120Ah I'd limit the incoming current to 24A. Note that your alternator has to be putting that much out, too - it might not, and I am not sure what underpowering the charger will do. By that, I mean I'm not sure what happens if the charger is trying to deliver 25A but the alternator can only spare 15A because of the low engine revs. My guess is the power supply will start hauling from the main battery.
There are a number of good reasons for limiting the charge rate! You can't idle the car and recharge the battery, because at idle the alternator can't deliver that many amps. It'll deliver 8-10A sure, but not 40.
Hi Tony good points about the charge rate at idle and the rate of the batt.
The thumper will take 35AH which is nice.
One way to to stop the main batt being drained by the dc-dc charger is to use a proper batt isolator that never joins the batts in parallel like the piranha. As I'm looking at a 3 batt set up now this may work really well for me. Has anyone found one the like the piranha but will still allow you you overide and join everything in parallel?
The thumper will take 35AH which is nice.
One way to to stop the main batt being drained by the dc-dc charger is to use a proper batt isolator that never joins the batts in parallel like the piranha. As I'm looking at a 3 batt set up now this may work really well for me. Has anyone found one the like the piranha but will still allow you you overide and join everything in parallel?
Hi there.
I have a 2011 Navara STRd22, I rang ARB, and they told me that I had to leave the 2 batteries in the engine bay (it would viod my warranty-I rang the guy who sold me the car and he said thats a load of bull), and run a third battery from the tub (anxillary). I then want to run my fridge freezer. I couldnt believe that he said that it would be around the 1500, including a isolator e.t.c. Now its time for me to act, im thinking of taking to a good auto electrician. I live in Brisbane (Browns Plains). Does anyone know a good one? I think I will just replace both batteries? Or atleast the passenger side. I already have a 12v socket in the tub that is currently running from the main battery. I actually got nissan to fit one. I has an inline fuse. So i think its a matter of running the 12v socket wires to the passenger battery (maybe to a yellow top optima), and having a isolater installed.
I have a 2011 Navara STRd22, I rang ARB, and they told me that I had to leave the 2 batteries in the engine bay (it would viod my warranty-I rang the guy who sold me the car and he said thats a load of bull), and run a third battery from the tub (anxillary). I then want to run my fridge freezer. I couldnt believe that he said that it would be around the 1500, including a isolator e.t.c. Now its time for me to act, im thinking of taking to a good auto electrician. I live in Brisbane (Browns Plains). Does anyone know a good one? I think I will just replace both batteries? Or atleast the passenger side. I already have a 12v socket in the tub that is currently running from the main battery. I actually got nissan to fit one. I has an inline fuse. So i think its a matter of running the 12v socket wires to the passenger battery (maybe to a yellow top optima), and having a isolater installed.
RustyNav09
Member
09 d22 here and have the up front standard dual batttery. they are parrallel so if you remove one make sure u remove the leads or tape them up real well so they dont short circuit. i have a 100AH agm in the tub with a custom battery box using an isolator. the isolator is soon to be removed and a battery charge installed to keep the agm topped to 100% while driving. they cant void warranty if you remove a battery thats horse ****.
good luck. oh as for a decent auto electrician. i would say study up and DIY it that way you know its done the way you want. thats what i did and i 100% hate playing with electricity.
Rusty
scottybobcat
2014 muster sponsor
Put an isolater In between the 2 batteries in the engine bay. Make sure you tape the positive up really well.
RustyNav09
Member
no probs. oh and after next pay day i may have a redarc SBI12 Isolator for sale. see how i go
Welcome to the forum, Beno.
Your warranty won't be affected by removing the battery or even if you pour warm milk on it.
There are several ways for you to go, but whichever way will require some form of isolation from the starter battery, because under no circumstances EVER should you compromise that. Isolators do this task simply and effectively.
The first way is to leave the second battery where it is, isolate it and use it as the auxiliary by attaching a fuse then from the fuse run some heavy cable down to the tub (the heavy cable is needed not to handle current, but to stop voltage drop). In the tub, connect the power straight to whatever device you want.
The second way is to remove that battery, move it to the tub and do pretty much the same thing. Connect an isolator to your primary battery, run a heavy cable pair (both positive AND negative) from the isolator into the tub and connect it to the second battery. From there, do what you need to. In this scenario, you need to fuse BOTH ends of the cable run from front to rear - because there's a battery on both ends of the cable.
The third way is to leave the second battery where it is, buy an isolator and buy a deep cycle battery, install that in the tub and hook it up the same way as #2. This is more expensive, but the battery is going to do more for you. Deep cycle batteries allow you to use more of their capacity without damaging the battery. Starter batteries should never be run down to less than 50% of their capacity - deep cycles can be drawn as low as 20% of their capacity.
There's a better choice of isolator, too - but it's also more expensive. It will give you greater capacity. Either the C-Tek D250S or the Redarc BCDC 1240 - both will allow you to add a solar panel later. I do have a personal preference for the C-Tek gear. Either should set you back around the $300 mark.
A good auxiliary battery (ok, the BEST) is a spiral wound AGM like the Optima Red/Yellow/Blue tops. I've got a 160Ah in my caravan, you can pick these up for around the $500-$550 mark - but Rays Outdoors flog them for less.
Don't skimp on the big cables running from the engine bay to the tub. They need to be well-insulated, they need to be routed where sticks and debris are less likely to snag them.
Fuses - you need to put a fuse close to the battery. If there's a battery on each end, that means a fuse on each end. It has to be large enough to handle the current you're going to be hauling. The fuse isn't there to protect the devices - it's to stop a fire if the cable shorts to the body of the car.
Sorry for the long post - most of the guys here are used to it from me though. I might write up a FAQ on these as well.
rexxie
Member
Hello everyone, i've got a question that i cant get my head around, i've read thru a few threads but cant find the answer I need for something.
I am about to wire up a dual battery system in the nav and also put a battery in my camper trailer i am picking up tomorrow. I've been looking at battery chargers and an inverter to put in the camper trailer to charge the deep cycle battery in there, but what i want to know, usually you would install a battery charger in the car to look after the dual battery setup there. Do i need to have two battery chargers set up? One in the car and one in the camper or would the one in the camper also charge the one in the car when they are connected with the anderson plug?
Hope that all makes sense! Anyone that can give me an answer would be much appreciated.
Helen
I am about to wire up a dual battery system in the nav and also put a battery in my camper trailer i am picking up tomorrow. I've been looking at battery chargers and an inverter to put in the camper trailer to charge the deep cycle battery in there, but what i want to know, usually you would install a battery charger in the car to look after the dual battery setup there. Do i need to have two battery chargers set up? One in the car and one in the camper or would the one in the camper also charge the one in the car when they are connected with the anderson plug?
Hope that all makes sense! Anyone that can give me an answer would be much appreciated.
Helen
