Timing Chain Failures and Oil Filters

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What Oil Filter Choices Have You Made?

  • I've never had a timing chain fail

    Votes: 52 75.4%
  • My timing chain has failed, only ever had genuine oil filters

    Votes: 6 8.7%
  • My timing chain has failed, used aftermarket oil filters

    Votes: 11 15.9%

  • Total voters
    69
Sorry Tony, but I don't agree with you on this.

The tensioners are fine, the upper tensioners do fail but they make a noise when they do, giving you early warning. According to Billcar (The independant YD25 experts in the UK) the lower tensioners never fail.

The D22 up to 2005 in the UK was fitted with exactly the same setup EXCEPT the lower chain was a duplex. These models very rarely have timing chain issues.

Nissan in their wisdom (and obviously to save costs) when they built the D40 used a single row lower chain driving the duplex upper chain. The lower chain stretches resulting in the lower tensioner extending beyond its operational limits.

Not having had mine fail nor the opportunity to examine numerous examples, the only information I have is the reports here on this forum and what I've gathered by talking to mechanics who have worked on these engines.

There are a great many more Navaras than we have members in this forum, so what we have here is just a small sample. While it's true that people are more likely to visit a forum such as this if they have a problem (compared to the chance of visiting if there's nothing wrong - if there's no reason to look for info, why look at all) I don't think what we see here is truly representative of the car as a whole. This means that sometimes we'll see a trend that we've correctly identified right across the range - for example, vac hoses or solenoids, weak front diffs) and other times we won't.

That was the whole point of this thread - to try and gather information and see if there IS a specific area that causes problems. Judging from the feedback received, those tensioners look like an issue, as do the choice of oil filter. In reality it's anecdotal evidence - which can provide somewhat of a case, and give people a guide as to where to look or things they might do to reduce risks.

If I was asked specifically what I'd do to reduce risks - based on what I've learned in this thread - I'd say "always use a genuine filter and regularly change your oil with a good quality oil".
 
Ordered new YD25 duplex timing chain kit today. My STX D40 2007 has done 129,000 Kilometers on it and has started to play up in the last couple of weeks. It is just cutting out when I first start up.Thought it may be the fuel filter, but a mechanic told me it is one of the symptoms of the timing chain problem.
 
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Going to add something to make you all think a bit. I have an 07 D40 STX 2.5D. Its now done 208k and had the timing chain done under warranty at 125k and 14 months out of warranty.

So a few weeks ago I changed the oil and put in the usual Penrite %-30 Eco oil which i have used for years. I ALSO CHANGED THE FILTER FOR A GENUINE UNIT having always used Ryco.

A few days later I retired the Navara and bought a car to put the k's on intending to only use the D40 at weekends and holiday.

Well imagine my surprise after sitting for a week I start it and it is making the most horrendous timing chain noise i have ever heard. It was actually painful to hear. This lasted for about 10 seconds until the oil pumped up and the noise disappeared completely.

The car runs well when oil pressure up.

So does this puts to bed the genuine filter debate? Or does it? Maybe my oil pump is shot.

My mechanic thinks that maybe the oil pump is weak or the spring that holds the tensioner in place is weak and allowing the tensioner to drop a long way from the chain.

What you think about that?

Following on from my last post on this issue I have left the car sit while i think about the dilemma. My thoughts are that I will get YD25 to fit the dual row chains and sort of future proof the car. I like it but this chain issue drives me nuts. I just am loathe to drive it and dont want to stuff the whole engine. Has anyone fitted the YD25 kit themselves or with a mechanic mate? I am not saying its expensive for the kit- i think its very good value but i dont have the coin for the whole job at the moment.
Also one thing I thought about is why do Nissan specify such a low viscosity oil. Maybe 5-30 is ok for the same engine in a delivery van but in a 4x4 needs maybe a thicker oil to allow for higher engine temps. I would think that 5-30 will be as thin as water at higher temps and with high k's engines. Has anyone used a thicker oil?
 
i tried 5w30 in the past and didnt like the sound of the engine at all so went back to what its been used all those 13 years, 15w40. where i live we barely get below 0 C anyway.
 
How much does Nissan charge for the parts and labour to fix the rattly timing chain and how much is the duplex aftermarket in just parts ?

I've read the entire thread here and there is NO root cause identified..mainly because no one has dismantled and pulled their's apart

just as Old Tony states..alot of comment and speculation and he's trying to piece meal a story together.
 
I've read the entire thread here and there is NO root cause identified..mainly because no one has dismantled and pulled their's apart.

I have, and the cause is the single chain being fitted to a more powerful engine. (Than the D22 with a duplex setup) The single chain is not up to the job and it stretches prematurely.

Owners of vehicles with timing chains should be able to expect the chain to last the complete lifetime of the vehicle. We need to accept the inspection and replacement of these chains as part of the service schedule.
 
And I would say the purpose of this thread was Tony was investigating if there was a particular trend to the failures. It seems the results are still inconclusive.
 
I agree John, speculation at this stage.

say if I said the timing chain noise disappeared when the fuel filter was changed ?

interested in comments folks
 
I agree John, speculation at this stage.

say if I said the timing chain noise disappeared when the fuel filter was changed ?

interested in comments folks
I look at premature wear from a physics point of view. The power from the motor regardless of the formation of the motor ie D22/40, 126kw/140kw cannot affect the chain based upon the output. The timing chain only powers the pump and the cams, the 140kw runs a slightly higher rail pressure as part of the upgrade, one would think the higher pressure would work the pump harder???, yet most failures are reported in the 126 version, Gazz in your situation I can only think of injector noise, but the ecu should adjust and allow for the reduced flow if the filter was partially blocked.
 
Cavitation noise along with variable loading on the chain ?

ECU cant adjust when there is little flow into the pump---just looks at rail pressure ?..and the car wont go any faster than 90km/hr on the dead flat...put the foot down any further and motor would just cough and cut out....feathered the throttle all the way home for approx 400km

I'll post some pics when I down load them soon
 
Variable load on the chain is a very good suggestion mate, is the tensioner and guides able to support such a change in different driving situations and how does this occur??, very good thought.
 
This is what I open up my oil and fuel filters with after every service--post mortem


and this is the fuel filter I removed when the car was giving me hell on the way home last weekend

and this is compared to the last fuel filter opened up...both are around 10,000kms each..I change them out with every 2nd oil filter change ( which is at 5,000kms )

just peel the tops off
 
Is it the root cause or just a coincidence that the noise from the cam chain area has gone (maybe just for the time being ) since I changed the filter ?

as John mentioned , its a suggestion which may have or not some merit ?..sometimes we become all too focused on what is perceived to be "right" and blinded by not looking for other possibilities.

so just throwing this out there

btw , anyone else open up their filters ? or do oil analysis after every oil change?
 
ive got 214km 2x chains replaced 118km and 185km, genuine single row chains, all genuine filters, new tensioner at both changes, when they go again im going yd25 dual row.. stretching the lower chain, eating the 2x sprockets/tensioners/guides.. 1k trade in parts each time..
 

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