Timing Chain Failures and Oil Filters

[Old.Tony]

I have also given some thought to vehicles parked nose up/down/level. If there is a line of thought in oil delivery delays to the chains being an issue could this be a contributing factor? Mine seemed to be noisier if it was nose up overnight rather than nose down. Of course it could be just my imagination.

You know, I've never once thought about this issue in relation to the sump. For the fuel tank sure, you want to be slightly nose-up if you're low on fuel, but not the sump. It's an intriguing thought!

The strainer and the deeper part of the sump is at the rear so a slight nose-up attitude will help with oil pickup, but the more important question is which orientation stops the oil from flowing back out of the filter on startup?

I'd suggest that neither would be overly helpful. The filter sits a fair bit higher than the sump so it's likely to drain regardless.

Of course, a REALLY steep nose-down angle (you could read that as "standing on its bullbar") would probably do the timing chain a world of good, but please realign your driving lights before joining traffic.

 

[unsteadm]

I had my chains done on my 2010 d22 after it had a wining noise from the bottom gear. Now at 15 000 later im starting to get the wine back again and my last service i put a ryco filter not a genuine. So i find this really interesting and i will definately be buying a genuine one tomorrow after reading this post.

 

[Old.Tony]

Please let us know if the whine goes away, it will be very interesting.

 

[4 naving]

The filter only really effects start up rattle as the tensioner builds up pressure. So it may not fix your whining noise. But it will be interesting if it does...

 

[benchrisfennell]

Should everyone around the 120000 mark just do the chain for peace of mind... I am saving so i can do a duplex kit at 120000 for peace of mind. I have 2011 Thai model and my local arb dealer who service my car and users.genuine parts said it will.cost 1500 bucks in labour and plus the 1600 for the kit from yd2.5.com. I think 3 grand for peace of mind is better than a new donk and time off the road. What are your thought guys and gals

 

[Simsy]

Only cost me $800 in labour and another $200 for gasket and stuff to get my yd25.com chain fitted and that was done by a Nissan dealer in Adelaide.

Just in case you are worried about the quality of the yd25.com chain Nissan asked me for the contact details for yd25.com so they could get a parts and price list because according to them the kit was not only a lot better than the ome kit but it worked out a bit cheaper as well. So they intended to offer it as an option to other customers.

 

[abouttogobush]

I followed a fellow today through 3 suburbs, he was driving the poor stx like a petrol redlining in every gear. I thought to myself surely continual torture like that would be detrimental to the life of a chain???. And I see this very often in my travels. Mine sees 2500 tops or 3500 if I have the ***** in traffic, I wonder if the tensioner is affected by high rpm, thoughts???. And I know most of you all know how to drive a diesel.
Cheers

 

[camo.b]

I followed a fellow today through 3 suburbs, he was driving the poor stx like a petrol redlining in every gear. I thought to myself surely continual torture like that would be detrimental to the life of a chain???. And I see this very often in my travels. Mine sees 2500 tops or 3500 if I have the ***** in traffic, I wonder if the tensioner is affected by high rpm, thoughts???. And I know most of you all know how to drive a diesel.
Cheers

Haha sounds like me when its getting a fair squirt..ill report back in 50thou on that one
I must say in stock for its much nicer to change when the power runs out but when you have upped the fuel and air and still pulling at 4300 ill push it thru to 4500.

 

[abouttogobush]

Ha ha cam I know what you mean, but I guess normally you change lower, but just a thought some of our trucks redline at 1800 lol. I am thinking centrifugal force such as a clutch in a postie bike, but off topic sorry guy's.

 

[Old.Tony]

There are two sides to the D40 coin. First, it develops a large amount of torque down low, primary peak at 2,000rpm so the little 4cyl is just ticking over. I was chatting with some truckers who were travelling along with us through Victoria and they had their cruise control set at 1700rpm, mine was set at 2000rpm to do the same speed - so our little engines aren't revving that much harder than these (big Western Stars).

So the other side of that coin is getting the turbo up to speed, and that really doesn't start until about 1500rpm (it's spinning at idle, but not able to produce useful boost). Once at its initial boost levels, it spools very quickly up from a meagre 5-6psi up to a healthy 18-19psi at full song.

To keep the boost levels up, the thing needs to be revved. Being a VVT, it should be programmable to keep the thing spooled up at lower revs and I had thought chips like ChipIt could do that.

Your discussion though does raise an important question: do higher engine speeds cause the timing chain to wear at an increased rate per revolution, or is the increased wear purely because the engine has turned over more often?

 

[benchrisfennell]

Only cost me $800 in labour and another $200 for gasket and stuff to get my yd25.com chain fitted and that was done by a Nissan dealer in Adelaide.

Just in case you are worried about the quality of the yd25.com chain Nissan asked me for the contact details for yd25.com so they could get a parts and price list because according to them the kit was not only a lot better than the ome kit but it worked out a bit cheaper as well. So they intended to offer it as an option to other customers.

That's good news. I called my stealaship where i no longer have my car serviced there cause they are robbers and my warrenty ran out said they wouldn't install the y2.5 duplex kit cause.they could not warrent the parts. I guess every dealership is different. So ill be getting my mechanic the local arb dealer to do mine as i have no clue how to change it.

 

[Gbt]

It is an interesnting thought about the extra load/power at high revs. I would have thought that it would also work the other way as well: lots of throttle at low revs with no boost would (over)load the chain.

For me there is a sweet spot between 2-3000rpm when it is effortless for the engine so I try to keep it there, but alas I am also guilty of giving it the boot as mine pulls past 4000 pretty easily.

 

[roscoe07]

Going to add something to make you all think a bit. I have an 07 D40 STX 2.5D. Its now done 208k and had the timing chain done under warranty at 125k and 14 months out of warranty.

So a few weeks ago I changed the oil and put in the usual Penrite %-30 Eco oil which i have used for years. I ALSO CHANGED THE FILTER FOR A GENUINE UNIT having always used Ryco.

A few days later I retired the Navara and bought a car to put the k's on intending to only use the D40 at weekends and holiday.

Well imagine my surprise after sitting for a week I start it and it is making the most horrendous timing chain noise i have ever heard. It was actually painful to hear. This lasted for about 10 seconds until the oil pumped up and the noise disappeared completely.

The car runs well when oil pressure up.

So does this puts to bed the genuine filter debate? Or does it? Maybe my oil pump is shot.

My mechanic thinks that maybe the oil pump is weak or the spring that holds the tensioner in place is weak and allowing the tensioner to drop a long way from the chain.

What you think about that?

 

[Old.Tony]

It's very interesting. We know the oil filter isn't 100% behind the failure, but it does look like it's not really the timing chain that's faulty, it's the tensioners. The chains fail as a result of the tensioners not working properly.

Is it a weak spring, or is it a sticking mechanism that no reasonable spring could return to position after the chain tenses the wrong way? Is it a design fault, or does the tensioner get jammed through a build-up of material in the tensioner? Is that build-up due to a design fault, or through excessive engine heat, or poor quality engine oil (won't always be the case, but what if that is sometimes a factor?) ?

 

[Granthem]

Can now speak from experience. My tensioners are fine - however chain had two stretched links. They sit up when going around the cogs and scrape.

Plastic guides were chewed out

 

[Aydan89]

I put a ryco filter in my 07 150000km D40. Had terrible cold start up noise. Quickly swapped to a genuine filter. Noise is still there sometimes but most of the time isnt

 

[steel d40]

Changed to genuine filter from ryco and start up from cold has zero rattle. Sounds like a hot start. Genuine only from now on. Bummer.

 

[steve99]

My 2010 Thai built D40 King Cab 2.5L has 215,000klms on the clock and never had an issue with anything. In fact, its never been back to a dealer since the day I picked it up. I've used Ryco oil filters and Delo400 since day one.

 

[lookskyward1]

It's very interesting. We know the oil filter isn't 100% behind the failure, but it does look like it's not really the timing chain that's faulty, it's the tensioners. The chains fail as a result of the tensioners not working properly.

Is it a weak spring, or is it a sticking mechanism that no reasonable spring could return to position after the chain tenses the wrong way? Is it a design fault, or does the tensioner get jammed through a build-up of material in the tensioner? Is that build-up due to a design fault, or through excessive engine heat, or poor quality engine oil (won't always be the case, but what if that is sometimes a factor?) ?

Sorry Tony, but I don't agree with you on this.

The tensioners are fine, the upper tensioners do fail but they make a noise when they do, giving you early warning. According to Billcar (The independant YD25 experts in the UK) the lower tensioners never fail.

The D22 up to 2005 in the UK was fitted with exactly the same setup EXCEPT the lower chain was a duplex. These models very rarely have timing chain issues.

Nissan in their wisdom (and obviously to save costs) when they built the D40 used a single row lower chain driving the duplex upper chain. The lower chain stretches resulting in the lower tensioner extending beyond its operational limits.

 

[Stelianos]

if they wanted to save costs they would probably use the same setup, not make new gears and vaccum pumps, everyone i see change his oils and filters never has a problem,in fact thousands of navaras around me and hardly any problems reported the way i see it timing chain (along with other advertised 'expertise" repairs and 'upgrades') is just here to find more customers in the internet by advertising itself by 'indepent experts' who get wealthy on an imaginary problem.
so far 2009 d40 120k kms on clock and no repairs, and a 2007 cabstar (exact same engine with the d40) with 230k kms and just SCV replacement.