4 naving
Member
They use the same rope to tie up ships to the dock. they never wash the salt out, its always in the sun and it seems fine. so I follow there maintenance regime....
Dyneema Winch Rope Maintenance, what do you do?
- Thread starter nathand22
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JAFO
Member
Out of all the rope I have seen fail over the years, majority has been from internal unseen damage, where unseen dirt particles have entered the inner core of the rope and then while the rope is under tension/compression, the particles course internal abrasion from the inner core of the rope outwards.
Majority of the time, the failed rope had shown no visual external damage, only a physical inspection would had allowed an individual to feel the internal damage that would have been occurring over an extended period of time.
It's for this reason, that after each heavy contamination of mud through the rope that I would un-spool the rope, releasing tension/compression on the rope and then give it a good hose off or pressure wash, so to allow those particles to be free-up and wash out of the rope, something that while the rope is under tension/compression would hamper.
I don't expect to wash all particles out of the rope, but it will remove those larger particles from the rope and extend the ropes life a little more then if left un-attended to.
But this is my approach as well, in the eyes of others it may be over kill, but if I get 5 years or more out of my rope following this approach, then I don't really care if it is over kill or not, to me it's just good rope care principles that I have followed for many years
Majority of the time, the failed rope had shown no visual external damage, only a physical inspection would had allowed an individual to feel the internal damage that would have been occurring over an extended period of time.
It's for this reason, that after each heavy contamination of mud through the rope that I would un-spool the rope, releasing tension/compression on the rope and then give it a good hose off or pressure wash, so to allow those particles to be free-up and wash out of the rope, something that while the rope is under tension/compression would hamper.
I don't expect to wash all particles out of the rope, but it will remove those larger particles from the rope and extend the ropes life a little more then if left un-attended to.
But this is my approach as well, in the eyes of others it may be over kill, but if I get 5 years or more out of my rope following this approach, then I don't really care if it is over kill or not, to me it's just good rope care principles that I have followed for many years
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mate i see what people are saying about the dirt in the fibres, BUT and you are the first to say they have actually seen a rope snap and now for certain that it was from grit in the middle, and i find it hard to understand how a "poorly maintained" rope that has had grit left in it had no external wear what so ever.
The reason why i have quoted you above is, the one thing i have noticed after watching countless video on splicing and reading a heap of hints from manufactures is that they ALL say DO NOT PRESSURE WASH as the water at that pressure can easily cut through the minuet fibres, after all water jets can cut steel so i dont see why a pressure washer couldnt cut tiny nylon fibres ESPECIALLY if dirt can cause the issues you describe.
JAFO
Member
Nathan,
Given the pressures that some industrial type pressure washers put out (3000 - 4500psi), they are probably correct with regards to pressure washing.
At work we do have industrial type pressure washers to wash down Water Tankers and Urban Fire Pumps etc, and YES we do use them to wash down heavily contaminated canvas fire hose, but NO I have never considered using a pressure washer on a life/rescue lines, it's always been a soak in a 50Lt Bin with soapy water over night and then a good rinse off.
But in saying that, the pressure washer I have at home (a Kärcher 1500psi) has nowhere near the type of pressure output to the industrial type pressure washers (3000psi) we have at work too. I already use our Kärcher Pressure washer to wash down my recovery gear and have for about 6 years now, and as I can hold my hand under the Lance Spray with no discomfort, I would have no worries about using the Lance Spray Attachment on the Dyneema winch rope, but I would have to think twice about using the Dirt blaster attachment, as it's spray is more aggressive and I can't hold my hand under it for any period of time . . . it bloody hurts.
So yes I could see how some Pressure Washers could damage smaller rope fibres.
But as you have said, there is heaps of information out there on how we should care for our Dyneema Rope, some information may seen logical, other information may just sound like just down right load of bull crap, and I can't say if your right or wrong, it comes down to what seems to work for you. For me, I just following rope care principles that I have used for 20+ years, and in my eyes they have worked for the rope I have used, now I am just applying those same principles to Dyneema Rope, only time will tell if those same principles work with Dyneema Rope too.
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JAFO
Member
Nathan,
I will have a search around the 'Net" and at work to try and find same other samples of internal damage rope that I can put up on the thread.
Even thou Dyneema rope is weaved different to kernmantle rope, the principles can be the same for both. The advantage of Dyneema rope and the way it is weaved, once it has been un-spooled and the tension/compression on the rope released, there is more possibilities of washing particles out of the rope, a task that is more difficult with kernmantle rope having a outer protective shell.
Part of our "Before & After Use inspection" of Life/Rescue Lines, is for the user to run the entire rope length through their fingers, feeling for any lumps or flat spots in the internal core of the rope.
Lumps are a indication that small silica particles have entered the ropes core, and the silica particles then start cutting individual fibre strands (abrasion damage) to the internal core of the rope, and much of the time there will be NO external visual damage to the outer surface of the rope as shown in the attach image.
It's hard to explain how the damage works, at least when I train people I have examples of damage rope that people can touch and feel for themselves, and with Life/Rescue Lines the silica particles get into the rope when people stand on the rope and transfer the silica particles from their shoes into the rope's core or when the rope has been covered in dirt/mud and not cleaned after use.
Put the image below does show a rope with internal damage, but no visual signs on the external surface.
will have a look for larger better examples
Attachments
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Mate you are talking about two TOTALLY different products and i dont care about climbing style rope or anything else with an internal core (no disrespect intended)
I just dont see how the maintenance for Kernmantle Rope with an internal core which also has a secondary line that runs inside of that can be at all compared to DYNEEMA they really are apples and bananas, yeah both are fruit BUT totally different in every way.
I would think that if you did pressure wash your DYNEEMA 12 strand WINCH rope not only do you run the risk of cutting the fibres but you would FORCE the dirt into the weave, not that i do it but at-least when you soak it you allow the dirt to be released not forced deeper.
You say those photos (of the wrong style of rope for our discussion) show no external damage,,,, BUT all i see is external damage......... the green outer layer is totally gone how is that not external damage.
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JAFO
Member
Nathan,
Why bother, you have your view, I have my view, if you can’t except others Constructive views, then why bother asking?
Some more example for you thou, and most example are not based on Kernmantle Rope:
http://www.ropeinc.com/rope-inspection-retirement.html
but now, I’ll just call it quits, so Good luck with your rop .
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Its not that i dont accept your views it just that you have been talking about entirely different type of rope, and Just because i dont AGREE with your views and chose to debate your theories doesnt mean i dont accept them.
However, If i was talking about Kernmantle or any other Sheathed style rope you by the sounds of it would be the man to talk to.
I just noticed your edit and included link,
which all that info is great , and i have never said anything that would show that i disagree with any of that info.
However it says nothing about dirt getting into the centre of Dyneema and causing the loss of the ropes integrity, it does describe what i spoke about in the external abrasion and when that becomes to great or more then 25% of the thickness of the rope has been compromised to then "retire"the rope.
My point is that i dont think that soaking the rope after each use is really that important CONSIDERING that the EXTERNAL damage will more then likely be the demise of the rope.
Im not saying that dirt CANT cause SOME minor damage to the internal fibres im just saying other factors will cause a WINCH rope to fail first, like not spooling the rope on correctly causing "CHARING" or EXCESSIVE HEAT, or ABRASION or SHOCK LOADING
Anyway goodluck with what you do and may your rope last forever, i am happy with the three years and countless recoveries i have got out of mine so far, so i must be doing something right.
So its a year down the track and i thought i would see how people are going with their winch ropes, who has any break and who is doing what in regards to maintenance.
For me i lost my winch in the accident back on Aus day, the winch still had its original rope on it and i had never had it fail nor did it look like it was going to, when i last unspooled it and re-spooled it, it all looked in great shape for its age and amount of use it copped.
I know have a new winch with dyneema rope that i installed on the Ranga on Friday, and going by how well the last one lasted i will do the same thing with it asi did with the last one.
For me i lost my winch in the accident back on Aus day, the winch still had its original rope on it and i had never had it fail nor did it look like it was going to, when i last unspooled it and re-spooled it, it all looked in great shape for its age and amount of use it copped.
I know have a new winch with dyneema rope that i installed on the Ranga on Friday, and going by how well the last one lasted i will do the same thing with it asi did with the last one.
