Adding 2-Stroke oil to Diesel

[gazza414]

Read some more Tony..you have choosen alarmist info only.

hint --Diesel fuel additives

 

[Black_Outlaw]

Looking into the Naptha (Shellite) additive, I came across this.. 2 Stroke oil and Shellite as a Diesel Additive..

Since I'm about to own a diesel I decided to debunk "Diesel Conditioner" or... rather... prove it WORKS, is slightly risky (rubber corrosion, as the main ingredient is a solvent), but is REDICULOUSLY expensive.

First I found a diesel conditioner that is highly rated in all reviews, and is available at a large chain.
I decided on FlashLube's Diesel Conditioner (available at Supercheap Auto).
http://www.flashlube.com/en/products/diesel-fuel-conditioner.html
Ta-da!

Everyone loves it, everyone who uses it claims "a clogged filter, followed by great performance once changed" (aka. Its breaking down the junk in your fuel system, and the filter is catching it. This is a good thing; it works, both in theory and in user reviews.)

Next, I ventured into the science behind it. The Data sheets (thank god for 'safety' regulations FORCING them to publish this stuff). To which I found THIS!
http://www.flashlube.com/images/stories/pdfs/dieselfuelconditioner-datasheet.pdf


For the click lazy, and the less 'data sheet' enlightened of people, simply it says the active ingredients are:
Mixture containing severely refined base oils and additives
Solvent Naphtha 5-10%
Naphthalene 0.1-1%
Pseudocumene 0.1-1%
Mesitylene 0.1-1%

Basically what this means, is it has TWO ingredients.
1. Refined Oil (so... something thats not crude oil) 90%
2. Naptha (a basic solvent. Called SHELLITE in Australia) 10%
The rest of the ingredients are simply trace ammounts of Aromatic Hydrocarbons (in other words, that Naptha wasnt well refined).


As such, I went out looking for a DECENT refined oil; AKA, the BEST 'addative' I could give to boost the lubrication of my diesel.
What I found was this study (EXACTLY what I was looking for):
http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/education/lubricity additive study results.pdf

Have a look for yourself, that one is EASY to understand. What I concluded from it, is a low ash 2 stroke oil is the cheapest and pretty damn effective additive when it comes to lubrication. (scroll down to read number 7 in the test).

It warns its not ULSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel) but in Australia this isnt a huge issue, and it also appears to only risk the particulate filter, not the engine (anyone with more knowledge on USLD step in here, this is the only bit I couldnt nail down).


Armed with this knowledge, then came the EASY part:

Supercheap Bottle of Diesel Conditioner = 50ml = $3 =
$60\L (or in bulk for like $40\L)

Shellite = 1L for about $5 + Outboard 2 Stroke Oil = 1L for $10 =
Less than $10.50\L (10%, 90%)
As you have Shellite left over.


So what does this prove?
1. Diesel conditioner is Refined Oil + Naptha
2. Its BLOODY expensive
3. Its a solvent, so should be kept to low doses.
4. 2 Stroke oil really IS a better lubricant than Diesel
5. Its a simple home mix.

Hell, considering MOST diesel in Aus is B20 (20% biodiesel, which has better lube properties than DinoDiesel) you could PROBABLY just add 5ml of Naptha to your tank (which is whats in that bottle; 10% Naptha; 10% of 50ml = 5ml, the rest is oil)

 

[Old.Tony]

An additive that has 10% naptha is going to be safer than pure naptha. If you're mixing the stuff yourself, you've got the pure stuff around, and handling it should be done with great care given how volatile it is.

I deliberately chose the dangerous points to highlight that aspect - but I'm still interested in why. Why does Flashlube only have 10% naptha? Is too much naptha bad? What does naptha do to the combustion process, lengthen or reduce the burn time?

 

[gazza414]

Looking into the Naptha (Shellite) additive, I came across this.. 2 Stroke oil and Shellite as a Diesel Additive..

you've done well Black Outlaw... there is actually alot of info on the net plus organic chemistry literature.....also look into mixing fuels...just not for diesels...it opens up another world of knowledge for those who maybe interested

btw..I buy Shellite either by the 5 litres or a 20litre drum

 

[OzAssAssin]

gassa414 with your mix of Naptha and 2 stroke oil what is your mix ratio?, and have you had any issues.

 

[Rickstar]

Really don,t see all the fuss about extra lubricant.Since going to 10 ppm sulphur on diesel oil refineries have been using additives like infineum.See link.

Naphtha is just unleaded to the uninitiated.
http://www.infineum.com/Pages/refinery.aspx

Rick

 

[gazza414]

gassa414 with your mix of Naptha and 2 stroke oil what is your mix ratio?, and have you had any issues.

50cc of Naptha and 250cc of 2 stroke..pour the lot in when I fill my 125l tank----normally I go to within 3 litres of empty...therefore around 120litre's and 300cc of mix.

 

[Old.Tony]

Ok, new tank of fuel and 600ml of 2-stroke added. Ran the engine until warm (coolant @ 91C), held the car in first and accelerated. Held it at 4800rpm for a few seconds and listened - no knocking that I expected to hear, which means the 2-stroke isn't extending the burn time beyond the time it takes for the piston to travel downwards even at high RPM.

And while we're here, that was the first and only time that engine has been revved that hard - ever.

 

[OzAssAssin]

gassa414, I added the mixed ratio you suggested and the Nav has been running great, so will now wait until that tanks finishes and compare the difference.

 

[gazza414]

Looks like Nulon use 100% Naptha products

http://jr.chemwatch.net/CWWS.RG.DEMO/MaterialService.svc/GetMsdsByExternalUrl?mi=3807142&gid=NULON&cn=any&ln=any&fn=&cwn=41781&di=6383&ts=635011361139917552&hc=1E80AB53FAC5D5D75DDE593F96CE74A3&dn=bnVsb25vdXRiYWNr

 

[rabbit-chop]

What does the shellite do gazza?

 

[gazza414]

Its supposed to be a cleaning agent--which it does
also inhibates algae growth

all of which it does--but who knows when mixed----does it still have these isolated properties ?

all the hype from various companies says so

read up on it and make your own informed decision

here's Nulons Diesel power booster...they use 80% Naptha in that too.

http://jr.chemwatch.net/CWWS.RG.DEMO/MaterialService.svc/GetMsdsByExternalUrl?mi=5098552&gid=NULON&cn=any&ln=any&fn=&cwn=22-2765&di=6383&ts=635011360997667552&hc=6A2D3746338838882B5D8409F4FA57DD&dn=bnVsb25vdXRiYWNr

check out Toluene--its another great chemical used in fuels too....plus paint stripper.

 

[sparra04]

i currently use fuel doctor in every tank
question
can i use fuel doctor and 2t as the same time or will one overide/destroy the other?

 

[Old.Tony]

I don't know the answer, Sparra. I could chuck both in my tank and give you an idea in a couple of weeks!

 

[rabbit-chop]

Im a bit dodgy on using solvents and solvent based fuel additives on a regular basis. Once a year or when its needed if anything.

 

[sparra04]

I don't know the answer, Sparra. I could chuck both in my tank and give you an idea in a couple of weeks!

tony
my concern is one will fight the other and i would end up with sludge in bottom of tank or filter
i will try 2t next tank without fuel doctor ans see how it goes

 

[Beef]

whats an egr butterfly mod

 

[Rumpig]

whats an egr butterfly mod

http://www.navara.asia/showthread.php?t=64

 

[baggs]

interesting might give the 2stroke a go as my 05 D22 sounds like a chainsaw when cold i have been thinking it could be stretched timing chain or somthing like that i listen to my motor too much i compare mine to a mates 06 with less klm and his is def quiter then mine dose injecter pump get a loud rattle in the late stages of its life?

 

[gazza414]

Im a bit dodgy on using solvents and solvent based fuel additives on a regular basis. Once a year or when its needed if anything.

Have a look at the entire thread and all the aftermarket additives are solvent based...the facts are published in all the MSDS 's ( Material Safety Data Sheet ) which are online