Turbo Failure

[pbc]

Hi Guys
Haven't been on for a while been busy i seem to remember a topic on turbo failure in the D22 zd30 but could'nt find it so i thought i would post a new one. My inlet impeller let go yesterday and went thru the engine destroying 2 pistons & a few valves at 103567 klm going to be an expensive repair i feel.

 

[Al]

sorry to hear mate.

 

[big orse]

Doesn't sound good. Sorry to hear mate! I fitted an XR6 intercooler(turbo catch can) just in case of this happening. My ute has almost done 100 000kms and I am a little worried about this happening due to the number we are starting to hear about after 100 000kms.

 

[Old.Tony]

Sorry to hear about that, that's a major rebuild of the motor. It would be interesting and perhaps of quite significant value to owners of any turbo-equipped vehicles if you could discover the reason for the turbo failure. Three things that might cause it:

1) Failure due to fatigue of the impeller. This would be very hard to spot so owners would be looking to protect the engine by using an intercooler to stop the parts reaching the inlet manifold

2) Turbine bearing failure. Unfortunately a more common occurrence, and a good preventative measure here is the use of a turbo timer coupled with an EGT monitor.

3) Particle ingestion. Extremely unlikely - I'd go as far as saying nearly impossible - with a snorkel fitted, but a standard air intake could possible see small stones entering the air box. If the filter was not intact, these could be flicked up by the tyres into the intake and strike the impeller causing its destruction.

I'm sure there are other guys out there that have similar vehicles, and letting them know what caused yours to fail might help them avoid the same issue.

Which way are you going to deal with it, engine rebuild or replacement?

 

[tweak'e]

it would be good to see some pics of the turbo (or whats left of it!).

i've heard of impellers breaking due to shaft seizing but no idea if thats the case here. i wonder if the egr butterfly could cause a problem ??? drop back to under 3k revs and butterfly snaps shut while your still at full boost causing turbo to slow in a hurry.

 

[simonk8]

gday mate, I went through the same thing last year (mine was a turbo bearing failure) This is how i went about fixing it:

Option 1:
Sent it of to Nissan, quoted about $15000-$20000 for a new engine installed with new turbo and recon injection pump. Needless to say didn't go down this path!

Option 2:
Second hand motor, you can get one for about $4000 - $5000, I personally wouldn't go down this path if you are wanting to keep the car.

Option 3:
Pulled the engine out myself, sent it off to Central Diesel for a complete rebuild. I supplied the parts which I got from Engine Australia, this was about $6000. New turbo, injectors and rebuilt fuel pump about $4000 all up. So grand total about $10000. If you do this they key to success is to label everything carefully and be organised, those zip lock bags come in very handy. If you send it off to a rebuilder make sure you list everything you give them and have them sign off on a parts list, as they will lose all sorts of stuff, my flywheel went missing, got it back though. When selecting a rebuilder, go check out their workshop, if it is a mess, stay well away.

If I did it again, I would buy a new crate motor from Nizzbits, I reckon that was about $8000 but does not include turbo or fuel injection system, at least this way you get the newest engine available

Not sure if you are looking at doing the work yourself, if you can you can save around $5000 in labour but it is a long and difficult process, a good learning curve though and pretty enjoyable when you turn it over for the first time!


If you have any questions, please let me know.

Good luck.

 

[pbc]

Thank's for the replys guys.To answer Tweaks question the impeller split clean in half and more or less just fell of the shaft other than some housing damage where the impeller touched there is no other damage at all even the shaft operation is still smooth with no play at all i was in low gear at the time at about 2500rpm changing to 2nd i will rebuild it myself as i am a mechanic by trade anyway so that will save some $$$$ i would like to see some pictures of your intercooler set up Big Orse. i will endevour to keep you all informed if i find anything out of the ordinary.
Cheers.
Phil

 

[simonk8]

Also, have a chat to MTQ about a turbo. I heard they have a stronger replacement unit available now.

 

[tweak'e]

any blueing on the shaft?

also whats the air filter like? dirty? wet? oily?
not uncommon for them to get a fair bit of oil in them.
big inlet restriction can cause the compressor wheel to fail.

i wonder if theres an easy mod, maybe a bigger compressor wheel ?

 

[pbc]

No bluey at all Tweak'e looks brand new air cleaner also brand new bit of a strange one really

 

[big orse]

Thank's for the replys guys.To answer Tweaks question the impeller split clean in half and more or less just fell of the shaft other than some housing damage where the impeller touched there is no other damage at all even the shaft operation is still smooth with no play at all i was in low gear at the time at about 2500rpm changing to 2nd i will rebuild it myself as i am a mechanic by trade anyway so that will save some $$$$ i would like to see some pictures of your intercooler set up Big Orse. i will endevour to keep you all informed if i find anything out of the ordinary.
Cheers.
Phil

It is very similar to Nafen's set up here in this thread: http://www.navara.asia/d22-accessories/184-intercooler-8.html (click) (scroll down through the thread)
except I used an aluminium pipe kit from ebay so I have a few silicon joiners. The pipe kit was $300 and the intercooler was $50 so pretty cheap insurance in case of a turbo failure. It took me the best part of a day to install. Alot of pics in that thread will help in routing the piping.

 

[Dave]

http://www.navara.asia/product-reviews/2995-ase-intercooler-kit-2.html

Check this thread out aswell.

Sorry to hear about your drama's mate.

Dave.

 

[tweak'e]

No bluey at all Tweak'e looks brand new air cleaner also brand new bit of a strange one really

bugger, sounds like a defect in the compressor
on the bright side you can now make it better than new. be interested to here if theres any turbo upgrades or mods to them.

 

[AndrewD]

When the turbo blows up, generally what are the sizes of the pieces, if this can be answed? Only asking because someone like myself who can't afford an intercooler at this stage, would a piece of guaze with suitable spacings work if you put it in after the turbo??
Or would there be to much restriction for air flow??

 

[Al]

th think its a good question.... would be great if there was some way of protecting it without fitting a full intercooler

 

[Old.Tony]

I'd hazard a guess that even the smallest particle could cause some damage if it were caught in the wrong place. Air filters aren't like they are for no reason, noting of course that a continual stream of fine particles would be highly abrasive and hopefully the turbo doesn't let go that often!

Whatever you choose, it has to withstand some temperature because post-turbo compressed air is quite hot, so normal fly mesh would melt.

When you *do* come up with a solution, make sure there's a good, tight seal around it so that the compressed air within can't escape, and water splashes can't enter.

 

[AndrewD]

I was thinking of some steel gauze with holes 1x1mm square or 2x2mm square. Something that could atleast catch the big particles. My only concern is the flow of air and if this would restrict air flow to much??

 

[Old.Tony]

I guess the math will come down to how much stuff is being placed in the pipe. If the gauze has 1mm thick "wire" and has 1mm x 1mm holes, then you're basically halving the volume on one axis and halving the remainder on the other - so you're quartering the amount of available pipe. At 2mm x 2mm, you're reducing by a third on each axis, so you're left with a third of the original area (roughly).

Then there's the issue of Reynolds Factor and the drag created by laminar flow close to a surface that inhibits the airflow, which may be slightly compensated by the pressure but I'd bet on an increase in lag and decrease in efficiency.

The intercooler suffers from the same thing, but compensates for it by cooling the airstream and making it denser (hot air expands etc).

I'd try the 2mm x 2mm gauze and see how it feels. 1mm x 1mm would be far too constrictive.

 

[davedt83]

So how many Navaras have done this? I cant affrod 10k to fix mine if it ever happens!!!!

 

[Old.Tony]

It's not common. You read about it in forums like this because as a problem, it's highlighted by everyone raising and discussing the issue.

Fortunately, it's not a common occurrence at all. I'd like to see if the preventative ideas are workable without too much drama, then you could give that a go as a measure of insurance.