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KraftyPg
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No my problem is I've only got a 15Amp hammer.
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KraftyPg
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For those who like quality music and have seen the Freddie Mercury Tribute for his 65th Bday today on Google don't forget to click the play button in the center of the logo.
Dion, do you mean like a fifth wheeler?
No, like a dog trailer you'd find behind a tipper truck, with a rear fixed axle or two and a front articulated axle that is steered by the drawbar. They're legal for heavy vehicles but I want to know if they're legal for light vehicles.
They're legal in the UK but the only retailers I can find of them here are selling them for industrial materials handling IE baggage handlers and factories, not on-road stuff. I saw an articulated car trailer of this design on the freeway here once that was pretty much exactly what I mean but that was the only time I've ever seen one and doesn't mean they're permitted.
Some examples:
They're legal in the UK but the only retailers I can find of them here are selling them for industrial materials handling IE baggage handlers and factories, not on-road stuff. I saw an articulated car trailer of this design on the freeway here once that was pretty much exactly what I mean but that was the only time I've ever seen one and doesn't mean they're permitted.
Some examples:
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KraftyPg
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I think you'll find new trucking laws state that the "A double" is legal on many roads and being spread further into road law due to then trying increase load sizes which they say will cut down on the number of trucks on the road. There is a new national draft being written up for heavy vehicles (all States but WA included but they are involved) and they are reviewing all these rules with a guide to making them legal on all roads especially given they are as maneuverable as a B double.
As for them being on light vehicles I don't believe there is any legislation that says no based purely on the turntable but I have seen similar on 8 tonne trucks so they do go down atleast that far.
As for them being on light vehicles I don't believe there is any legislation that says no based purely on the turntable but I have seen similar on 8 tonne trucks so they do go down atleast that far.
Thanks Krafty. I just found many references to dog trailers in Vehicle Standards Bulletin 1 - National Code of Practice for Construction of Light Trailers, so since the Victorian VSI9 Trailer Registration Requirements cites VSB1, I can only assume they're legal.
I know that there is a caravan around the corner from where i live that is set up exactly like the first photo you posted.
when i first saw it, i thought it was a 5th wheeler, in fact it might be as the chasis does crank up for the front wheels like a 5th wheeler, but it does have a dog trailer set up, so that its towed from a h/d rear mount hitch.
Its parked in someones front yard (with a big fence) so i dont know if i'm able to get any photo's of it.
when i first saw it, i thought it was a 5th wheeler, in fact it might be as the chasis does crank up for the front wheels like a 5th wheeler, but it does have a dog trailer set up, so that its towed from a h/d rear mount hitch.
Its parked in someones front yard (with a big fence) so i dont know if i'm able to get any photo's of it.
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KraftyPg
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The hassles we had registering our cattle trailer last year I won't say you'll be fine because I'm sure each VR office has a different rule book but I'd imagine they'd be more concerned about the weight and length, especially given the relationship of more length to more weight.
There was a place (farm type thing) the schools down here used to take kids to on day trips that had the typical farmers trailer with big wheels and a similar linkage system, I know they had to have everything registered because the tractor trip went on main roads for a short period of time (between farms) but they may have had a special registration.
There was a place (farm type thing) the schools down here used to take kids to on day trips that had the typical farmers trailer with big wheels and a similar linkage system, I know they had to have everything registered because the tractor trip went on main roads for a short period of time (between farms) but they may have had a special registration.
Thanks guys. Seems like they're legal but very uncommon... perhaps because everybody in the whole entire world (it seems) can't reverse a box trailer to save themselves and one of these would be a whole other level.
Tell me about it. And it's not just a VicRoads thing. I think I've told this story on here before but I went with the old man to try and transfer the F250 registration from VIC to QLD and the QT office at Currumbin (Light Vehicles only) said "We don't deal in light vehicles with a GVM between 3.5T and 4.5T" ......What? We called QT to complain and they said that each office is run like its own little kingdom, and they can make up rules like that if they want to. We said "And you think that's good enough??". Admitted defeat and went to Southport in the end but what a load of........
Tell me about it. And it's not just a VicRoads thing. I think I've told this story on here before but I went with the old man to try and transfer the F250 registration from VIC to QLD and the QT office at Currumbin (Light Vehicles only) said "We don't deal in light vehicles with a GVM between 3.5T and 4.5T" ......What? We called QT to complain and they said that each office is run like its own little kingdom, and they can make up rules like that if they want to. We said "And you think that's good enough??". Admitted defeat and went to Southport in the end but what a load of........
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KraftyPg
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You could be on the money there Dion, they should make reverse testing part of the process when you go in to register a trailer.
In fairness to my local VR they aren't too bad, our biggest problem registering the trailer was that the guy who made it (should be banned from making trailers, especially braked trailers, but that's a different story) used the same VIN twice and it rang all sorts of bells with VR which it rightly should. There was confusion because VR's info didn't match the trailer maker and we were caught in the middle, however that's not to say I haven't had a few run ins with the bastard with purple lights on his roof.
In fairness to my local VR they aren't too bad, our biggest problem registering the trailer was that the guy who made it (should be banned from making trailers, especially braked trailers, but that's a different story) used the same VIN twice and it rang all sorts of bells with VR which it rightly should. There was confusion because VR's info didn't match the trailer maker and we were caught in the middle, however that's not to say I haven't had a few run ins with the bastard with purple lights on his roof.
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KraftyPg
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Nah only in the trucks, the prick shadowed me for 3 days after he found an out of date rego sticker on the truck and a broken indicator wire on the bullbar.
We got looked at one day dragging the cattle trailer behind the Playdo. Going by the documents we had for the bulls in the back there was 2.7 tonnes of meat in the trailer plus the trailer, the Playdo although capable was being treated sedately for a change, however it knew there was nearly 4 tonne hooked on it's arse. and Mr Magenta followed us for a while and looked pretty hard as he passed us but he must have had something more important to do than chat to us.
We got looked at one day dragging the cattle trailer behind the Playdo. Going by the documents we had for the bulls in the back there was 2.7 tonnes of meat in the trailer plus the trailer, the Playdo although capable was being treated sedately for a change, however it knew there was nearly 4 tonne hooked on it's arse. and Mr Magenta followed us for a while and looked pretty hard as he passed us but he must have had something more important to do than chat to us.
Here's another thought about the dog trailer behind a small vehicle compared to one behind a large vehicle.
On a large vehicle, the weight of the front axle assembly + turntable would be what, 400Kg? For a rig weighing 13 tonnes capable of pulling 30 tonnes, that 400Kg is nothing, it represents 400/30000 = 1.3% of the total trailer mass.
On a small vehicle, the front axle assembly and turntable would be say 300Kg, with a total mass of 3,000kg so that's 10% of the total mass of the trailer.
I don't know about you, but for a small vehicle, I'd rather have that 300kg available for me. If that represented something in a caravan, that's 300 litres of water. Or it's ALL of my food and clothing for a 2-week trip.
As for reversing it, it's something you either learn or you don't. I really do think that trailers (and therefore people's ability to tow them) need to be separately licensed (even if it's at no cost, just a stamp on your license) because I've seen some real shit-for-brains out there towing that have no idea ... "Honey, I got it" *BAM* "well, you wanted a new letterbox, didn't you?"
On a large vehicle, the weight of the front axle assembly + turntable would be what, 400Kg? For a rig weighing 13 tonnes capable of pulling 30 tonnes, that 400Kg is nothing, it represents 400/30000 = 1.3% of the total trailer mass.
On a small vehicle, the front axle assembly and turntable would be say 300Kg, with a total mass of 3,000kg so that's 10% of the total mass of the trailer.
I don't know about you, but for a small vehicle, I'd rather have that 300kg available for me. If that represented something in a caravan, that's 300 litres of water. Or it's ALL of my food and clothing for a 2-week trip.
As for reversing it, it's something you either learn or you don't. I really do think that trailers (and therefore people's ability to tow them) need to be separately licensed (even if it's at no cost, just a stamp on your license) because I've seen some real shit-for-brains out there towing that have no idea ... "Honey, I got it" *BAM* "well, you wanted a new letterbox, didn't you?"
Fair enough. Hard for him to prove squat with livestock without a weighbridge. Easier game would be the typical Falcodore with the front wheels half a metre in the air, 1400kg of another Falcodore loaded incorrectly on the rental car trailer, and a big 1200KG MAXIMUM sticker on the rental trailer because they're too tightarsed to jump up into the next rego price bracket so the CAR trailer can legally tow a CAR.
Thing is, the police don't seem to bother with those either. Saw a Camry with a double-axle car trailer and a HQ Holden sitting on the back the other day. There's no way in hell the Camry should have been doing that, but there were no cops around to stop the idiot. If he'd had to brake his ABS would have been working away happily as the front wheels would have had next to no traction - right up until the inevitable collision.
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KraftyPg
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The rules of dragging a trailer are ridiculous in all forms of licensing, not sure if it's still the same now but when I got my MR license years ago the ruling stated I was not allowed to drive anything over 12 tones and it had to have a single drive axle (I believe it's changed to 15 now) which meant a 12 tone HR (two axles) was off limits, however I could legally have hooked a 7 tonne trailer of any description to that MR making a total 19 tonnes and a pivot point. They don't test for trailers when you get your MR license and yet a trailer can nearly double the vehicle mass yet it's totally legal to skull drag one 5 minutes after your have a license.
Car drivers aren't much different, get a license, hook a trailer on and drive away without consideration that the trailer could easily double the length of the vehicle, or in cases of big vans and boats easily double the total weight. And so few car drivers even know there are different road rules that can come into play with longer vehicles which include car and trailers.
Car drivers aren't much different, get a license, hook a trailer on and drive away without consideration that the trailer could easily double the length of the vehicle, or in cases of big vans and boats easily double the total weight. And so few car drivers even know there are different road rules that can come into play with longer vehicles which include car and trailers.
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KraftyPg
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I didn't expect the guy to pull us over road side for an overweight trailer but he was within his rights to check us and weigh us if he had the means to do so (I actually think he's got the right to make us wait for scales to turn up or request we go back to VR but I'm not sure on that). I'm sure even a laymen could look at our trailer and if they saw more than one set of legs in there they'd realise it's pushing the cars weight limits but it's not something I think they push too hard unless all the boxes get ticked at the same time....or the guy is having a bad day.
One of those rules is once the GCM exceeds 5 tonnes, we're limited to 100km/h like the big trucks. I doubt a lot of people know about that. I was made aware of it when I was looking at that new van which would have been 2900Kg gross, giving us a GCM of 5.6T compared to the 4.4T we have now.
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KraftyPg
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Also the rule (atleast it was still around in Vic last I checked) that any vehicle over 7.5m long is allowed to use as much as the road as needed to turn corners, that includes using up lanes on the opposite side of the road. Although this rule is more of an issue with drivers who wont give those towing the room to move but given so many people think they can tow trailers if such things required a test then maybe more people on the road would be tolerant of drivers hauling any trailer.
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