Zd30 fuel primer function

[ShortyNavros]

keep in mind what your reading the icv with. i think ecutalk reads it back to front, theres info in the patrol forum on that.

I have read a fair few posts on icv% readings with ecu talk and haven't seen any mention of the back to front reading? Can you point me int he right direction for it?

 

[tweak'e]

I have read a fair few posts on icv% readings with ecu talk and haven't seen any mention of the back to front reading? Can you point me int he right direction for it?

i havn't been on there in a long time.
ecu talk may have fixed the issue by now. its just one thing to watch.

with the pumps the timing cylinder is known to wear which causes the 7070 code.
afaik the rebuild kits have a new liner that goes in.

as usual fix the cheap stuff first.

 

[ShortyNavros]

Rebuilding the timing cylinder is an option? I figured most people put a new pump in as either the housing wears or the piston wears. Very few people I have read have actually taken on apart to see what needs replacing, regardless I highly doubt it is a DIY job. I know I 2004 some people have said bosch switched from a bronze piston sleeve to a steel one to try and decrease the wear rate, mine is a 2004 with a November build date so you would assume I have a steel liner which is supposedly a better option but who knows what the production date of the pump itself was? The local diesel specialist quoted 3k for the pump (there is another bloke who has a bosch testing bench in different town about an hour away who he gets the pumps off to install on an exchange basis) which is a remanufactured unit. So price for the remanufactured pup with new gaskets etc is 4-5k depending on what additional things need to be replaced, he said for extra they can also put a new pump harness in, I have no idea how necessary that is? Given the local diesel specialist here I have talked to doesn't rebuild the pumps himself I'd highly doubt he has the gear to pull the pump apart and replace the liner/piston if worn, and then the adage goes if you have it all apart you may as well replace as much as possible as the pump is 190k old (not that high really) and you could put it back in and something else fails down the track (even though I knew the piston/sleeve wear is the main thing and also frying the ecu board on top of the pump are the main killers of it).

 

[tweak'e]

its not a DIY job.
i was talking to the injection guy when they did one of ours.
they get supplied a kit and that includes everything including new electronics.
the pump needs to be run on a test bench and the electronics calibrated.

 

[ShortyNavros]

Yep I understand. There is none locally who could rebuild the pump here anyway so exchange would be the only option. I'm still super dubious as to whether the pump is actually the problem as the car runs perfectly fine. I drove it for an hour either way to a destination and it was fine the whole way. If my icv% was really as bad as what ecutalk says it is surely there would be some noticeable effect on the performance of the car? I'll hand it to the diesel local guy anyway and get them to try and do some tests and see what they come up with.

 

[tweak'e]

drive it until there is a problem.

 

[ShortyNavros]

drive it until there is a problem.

Yep usually that would be fine. However in 4 weeks time after Easter I am going on a 6 week road trip to the kimberley back through the centre of oz will be close on 11000kms through some seriously remote harsh locations, hence my concern with the health of the fuel pump.

 

[ShortyNavros]

they typically do not have that rubber seal as most filter seal on the threads.
those that require them the filters usually come with that seal.
old designs may have loose machining tolerances so the filters don't seal on the thread hence the need for the seal.

also it won't fix the primer problem an it won't stop air being sucked in.
that inner seal only stops fuel from bypassing the filter.

I just took my filter off and there is no seal around the threads as you say, there is a groove there present which looks like it should contain a seal? However there isn't really a machines flat surface on the filter for it to seal to anyway. I have left it apart and will see if Nissan have the replacement part, not sure how necessary it actually is but I suppose it can't hurt to have in there?

At the moment I'm pretty out of ideas, I'm almost partial to the idea that I'm not getting true icv% readings which reflect what the pump is doing as the car works fine. I'll give it to the diesel service centre near me for a couple of days and see what they can come up with.

Also I blew out both the return and inlet fuel lines with compressed air, and replaced all the oem fuel hose with new and put new screw type clamps rather than the spring oem ones.

Cheers
Shorty

 

[ShortyNavros]

And it looks like you're right about the fuel primer thread seal o-ring when you buy a new oem Nissan primer head there is no seal in that spot on any of the items on eBay. The older td42 filter head which looks similar but has the Bleed screw does have that o-ring sing seal though. Obviously the threads are enough to seal the filter effectively to stop containination of filtered fuel vs unfiltered.

 

[Horatius]

And it looks like you're right about the fuel primer thread seal o-ring when you buy a new oem Nissan primer head there is no seal in that spot on any of the items on eBay. The older td42 filter head which looks similar but has the Bleed screw does have that o-ring sing seal though. Obviously the threads are enough to seal the filter effectively to stop containination of filtered fuel vs unfiltered.

There is supposed to be a rubber seal around the centre threads. For a few dollars Nissan will sell you one. Though a lot of cars probably don't have one as it gets lost or damaged or whatever eventually. Not sure how necessary they are for filtering, but they are designed to have one.

How did you get on anyway?

 

[Horatius]

ps. I brought a couple when I changed the primer pump. They don't come with it, I remember something funny about that in their catalogue they are shown with the filter instead of primer pump, as they consider them a consumable that you would replace with the filter or something.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/GENUINE-Nis...976131?hash=item2cdb21a483:g:dTwAAOSw~p1bmHRh

A patrol zd30 one, same deal though.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fuel-Pr...D30-3-0L-Turbo-Diesel-upto-2007-/283097175140

 

[tweak'e]

the seal is simply not required.
i havn't seen ANY vehicle with one, let alone the d22 and we have two of them from new.

according to the mechanics is down the the filter used. filters these days seal on the thread quite well. possibly cheap ones that have poor threads i would be useful.
if the seal is required it will come with the filter.

the only time it will be of use is if the filter is seriously clogged. the seal only stops fuel from bypassing the filter and it will require lots of suction to be able to do that.
better to just change the filter.

 

[Horatius]

Fair enough. I won't dispute its usefulness.

But mine has always had one, they do make them, and there is a genuine part number. Up to yourself I guess.

 

[Horatius]

ps. not to argue here as each to their own, I'm guessing most D22's don't have this seal, if they fall off with the filter or whatever I don't see a mechanic worrying about it and no one would notice any difference anyway. Until you get some poor quality fuel and the filter gets waterlogged or starts to block up. Can see it as a potential problem then. Changing the filter would be obvious then, but I can see where it won't take much to bypass for that to be a bit late. Could be wrong of course, which would make it an inexpensive placebo.

Would be interesting to see out of the people who've needed a pump rebuild, how many have had this seal, or not.

 

[ShortyNavros]

The seal I am lead to believe was never present on our engines or the zd30 patrol. It looks like it was in the td42 fuel filter head assy which has an almost identical appearance apart from the bleed screw, it also uses the z332 filter, hence like has the exact same dimensions, meaning Nissan like cut costs and used virtually the same mould on the zd30 as they did the td42 which had the seal seat. The td42 filter assy actually comes with the seal if you buy the whole thing. The issue with the seal on a zd30 filter assy is if you have a look at the filter surface where the seal has to sit against the filter body and its not a good sealing surface, it has curvature to it, unlike the sealing surface on the outer rubber ring which sits flush against the flat surface of the filter assy. But I'm sure there is no harm by using a seal in that spot, it's likely just overkill

 

[Horatius]

How did you get on anyway shorty? Was it just crap i the tank? Pump alright?

 

[Horatius]

The seal I am lead to believe was never present on our engines or the zd30 patrol. It looks like it was in the td42 fuel filter head assy which has an almost identical appearance apart from the bleed screw, it also uses the z332 filter, hence like has the exact same dimensions, meaning Nissan like cut costs and used virtually the same mould on the zd30 as they did the td42 which had the seal seat. The td42 filter assy actually comes with the seal if you buy the whole thing. The issue with the seal on a zd30 filter assy is if you have a look at the filter surface where the seal has to sit against the filter body and its not a good sealing surface, it has curvature to it, unlike the sealing surface on the outer rubber ring which sits flush against the flat surface of the filter assy. But I'm sure there is no harm by using a seal in that spot, it's likely just overkill

That would mean I'm wrong. Bugger lol. I'll keep using it though, cheap placebo.

 

[ShortyNavros]

How did you get on anyway shorty? Was it just crap i the tank? Pump alright?

Hey mate, yeah so after I changed the fuel filter for a second time the ICV% came back up, its sits a 35% warm idle which Nissan defines pretty much as the lower limit for normal operation. The diesel specialist guy who tested it said its unknown how long it will last, could go for years without problems or could go in a couple of weeks. So yes, the fuel filter was chock a block with debris causing a flow restriction. I did also use some liquimoly diesel injector cleaner straight through the pump when I had all the hoses off for replacement. But given the debris I could see in the fuel filter I am pretty well inclined to believe it was at max saturation at which point flow was impeded and hence the low ICV% I was seeing. I have never monitored the ICV% before as I don't have an ecutalk monitor mounted to my dash, all I do is hook the cable to a laptop for diagnostic tests etc, so potentially my icv% could have been 35ish for a long time so I have no idea if it has deteriorated at all since I have owned the car.

Given its about 5k for a new rebuilt pump installed a figure I am better off waiting till I actually get symptoms of it dying, or when I get back from this trip I could source a rebuilt pump and attempt the install myself, I am just not comfortable with keeping the timing correct, I know you have to put a dowel or something in the time gear to make sure the timing stays the same when the new pump is reinstalled.

Hopefully the pump will last the 11000km trip to the Kimberley and back, I have faith as the D22 is yet to let me down too badly.

 

[Horatius]

Thanks shorty. It's good to hear how people get on, quite often when people have a problem they never report back and let us know how things were resolved, if they were...

ps. I agree re the pump, that's a lot of dough. Not sure my car is worth that much lol.