Snorkles=cleaner air=bullshite!

[felixblack]

The ram air effect from 4wd snorkal is a joke. With a properly designed ram air scoop at 240km/hr you will see 0.2psi increase. On a Navara with a snorkal designed for keeping water out of an intake at 120km/hr you will see F all. Though it does provide cooler air then the engine bay

 

[Deejay]

Hi Guys,

I've been thinking about this thread a bit and have a problem with some of the comments because they defy logic.

How can air from under the front guard have less dust than the ambient air above the windscreen? There is no dust free zone up to three feet off the ground. If you are driving behind someone and they are creating a dust plume, the dusty air sucked into the guard will be exactly the same as the dusty air sucked into the snorkel.

The inner guard does not work as a primary dust separator. The dust is airborne and therefore will get sucked into the guard area as well as above the windscreen.

I agree, you should collect more bugs and maybe even small objects of foreign matter into the filter housing from a snorkel, but dust loading should be identical.

BTW, a dusty filter is an efficient filter. I worked in the pollution control/air filtration industry for years and we always "seasoned" filters which needed to operate at highest efficiency straight away. Seasoning was sending in highly loaded air with powdered chalk onto the filters.

The chalk forms the initial "dust cake" which provides the best filtration. Microscopic particles fill in the spaces of the filter media which can't be seen without a SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope). ie, the dust becomes the filter and filters other dust. The outer dust cake would then be pulsed off to leave the finest particles still trapped in the media.

FWIW.

DJ

 

[Krankin]

Hi Guys,

I've been thinking about this thread a bit and have a problem with some of the comments because they defy logic.

How can air from under the front guard have less dust than the ambient air above the windscreen? There is no dust free zone up to three feet off the ground. If you are driving behind someone and they are creating a dust plume, the dusty air sucked into the guard will be exactly the same as the dusty air sucked into the snorkel.

The inner guard does not work as a primary dust separator. The dust is airborne and therefore will get sucked into the guard area as well as above the windscreen.

I agree, you should collect more bugs and maybe even small objects of foreign matter into the filter housing from a snorkel, but dust loading should be identical.

BTW, a dusty filter is an efficient filter. I worked in the pollution control/air filtration industry for years and we always "seasoned" filters which needed to operate at highest efficiency straight away. Seasoning was sending in highly loaded air with powdered chalk onto the filters.

The chalk forms the initial "dust cake" which provides the best filtration. Microscopic particles fill in the spaces of the filter media which can't be seen without a SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope). ie, the dust becomes the filter and filters other dust. The outer dust cake would then be pulsed off to leave the finest particles still trapped in the media.

FWIW.

DJ

.....Logic!

Jim, there's no intelligent life down here.

Beam me up Scotty!




Thanks Deejay, well written.

 

[4.8GU]

Your not really taking into consideration that the inner gaurd air is quite shielded actually.

For example with the GU patrol it would of been quite hard for airborne dust to enter (and it was) especially compared to a scoop at windscreen height designed to catch air and therefore whatever is in it.

Even the d40 is still reasonably sheilded inside the inner gaurd.

I am no scientist just stating obvious results that I have experienced over a number of years with my own vehicles and also customers.

Once again this was never about wether snorkles are a waste of time just interest in others experiences etc.

And yes I am sober now...... no beer in the house left!!!

 

[Old.Tony]

I think the reasoning behind the dust theory is twofold:

1) Inside your wheel arch, your own tyres are tossing masses of dust and crap around. Large particles (stones, sticks, leaves etc) are all well and truly airborne under the guard.

2) When following another vehicle, the tyres of that vehicle will do what yours are doing - throwing stuff up in the air. The larger particles should drop to the ground (once their ballistic movement is over) just leaving micro-fine dust suspended in the air.

So, under the guard, you're looking at all the junk you could possibly pick up hitting the filter, and from a snorkel intake, you're looking (mostly) at very fine dust and of course, soon-to-cease-living bugs.

I'm bloody glad they don't hold memorial services for 'em.

 

[Deejay]

Hi 4.8GU,

I think you missed my point. At mid range revs, the entire air mass within the guard would be ingested into the intake and filter about every second. The air that replaces that space has to come from somewhere. It comes from air gaps around the guard which draw from ambient air which again, is the same dust laden air the snorkel is drawing from.

I don't doubt your experience, just that it goes against logic. ;-)

Cheers,

DJ

 

[Ridgie]

Please excuse my ignorance - but what is that roar like noise I hear coming from my snorkel when driving?

Please keep your answers simple - I get lost on all this scientific stuff!

 

[Jason]

That is the rush of air through the snorkel, amplified because it is so well attached to the A pillar.

Sounds awesome huh?

 

[Peter ST_R]

Hi Guys,

I've been thinking about this thread a bit and have a problem with some of the comments because they defy logic.

How can air from under the front guard have less dust than the ambient air above the windscreen? There is no dust free zone up to three feet off the ground. If you are driving behind someone and they are creating a dust plume, the dusty air sucked into the guard will be exactly the same as the dusty air sucked into the snorkel.

The inner guard does not work as a primary dust separator. The dust is airborne and therefore will get sucked into the guard area as well as above the windscreen.

I agree, you should collect more bugs and maybe even small objects of foreign matter into the filter housing from a snorkel, but dust loading should be identical.

BTW, a dusty filter is an efficient filter. I worked in the pollution control/air filtration industry for years and we always "seasoned" filters which needed to operate at highest efficiency straight away. Seasoning was sending in highly loaded air with powdered chalk onto the filters.

The chalk forms the initial "dust cake" which provides the best filtration. Microscopic particles fill in the spaces of the filter media which can't be seen without a SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope). ie, the dust becomes the filter and filters other dust. The outer dust cake would then be pulsed off to leave the finest particles still trapped in the media.

FWIW.

DJ

But the dust particles encountered 4WDing have much larger diameter than air-born particulate matter of concern within the environment therefore fall out of suspension quite readily. With a snorkle the first place any dust can settle is the head of the snorkle then it continues to get sucked down towards the filter. In the inner guard the circulating air currents will allow coarser dust to settle within the engine bay and inner guard and this dust will continually trickle off without getting into the air intake. If you don't believe this then have a look at your rear window when driving through thick dust, you can see it constantly trickeling down the glass.

Cheers

P.S. I have seen the difference myself too

 

[4.8GU]

Yeah I get your point now and it does go against logic.... but in this case there must be some form of higher logic controling the universe! ha ha

I think peter st_r has a point too and it may go towards explaining what is happening?

Never expected this to get so heated and scientific.

Need a breath tester on my laptop to stop any future drink typing incidents!!! lol

Have a good one guys

 

[DVR]

That is the rush of air through the snorkel, amplified because it is so well attached to the A pillar.

Sounds awesome huh?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Induction noise. nice
Had a HJ60 a few years ago with a home made snork right by the drivers window.......lug,lug,lug,lug,lug,lug ROAR!!!..........beautiful noise

 

[barna]

Hey all just thought I would start an argument (topic) about peoples experiences with snorkles.

As some may be aware I work in the 4wd industry and there are those in the industry who may mock me for saying it but I believe that snorkles are marketed with some inflated claims.

Don't get me wrong I have had a snorkle fitted to my current vehicle but it was purely for the reason of keeping water out of the air intake and no other.

I have seen it over and over again with both my own vehicles and those that have come in to work for servicing that those with snorkles have always got far greater amounts of crap in the air box/filter than those without snorkles.

I just this morning took the filter out of my d40 for inspection after fitting a snorkle about 5k km's ago and it is sooo dirty compared to what it used to be for the same driving conditions.

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that even though in a small way my employment relies on selling/fitting these sort of things I would like there to be a bit more honesty involved with the pro's and cons of fitting a snorkle to your vehicle.
Remember there are a lot of those out there that have no experience and will listen to those who are supposed to know better. If they are getting sold a snorkle under the pretence of getting "cleaner air" to the motor I believe they are getting misled. After all 500 odd dollars could go a long way toward other things if you only want a snorkle for clean air and never really plan on using the vehicle in a wet environment. They are good insurance for water but that is the only thing I can say good about snorkles.

Just my oppinion but feel free to comment. I guess having a couple of beers after doing all the weekend chores is not a good idea!!! ha ha

barna here 4.8GU,
This may sound like a stupid question but were the vehicles with the snorkle's, going off road more often which ment more crap in the air cleaner?.
And the one's with out were not going off road as much which ment less crap,you no bitumen cowboys?

I think a higher percentage of vehicles with a snorkle would go off road more often.
I do realise though, alot of people do have them just for the sake of it.
Cheers.

 

[adamibinfishin]

howdy guys,
interesting reading on the snorkel debate,probably for most people who hit the dirt between 10 to 20 percent of the time makes it a hard fought argument to get one or not,especially when you can replace the air filter every 5000kms when you drop the oil.the snorkel was probably the next thing on my list but maybe not such a priority as i thought,probably as most of my driving is on the dunes to the next fishing spot.
cheers adamibinfishin

 

[Ankaz]

Cant really add much to this discussion but what i can say from personal experience is i can defiantly notice a drop in power since fitting my snorkel, has anyone else?

 

[maddogrc]

a drop in power? that definately doesnt sound right....

why would power be lost when cooler air is being fed to the turbo?

are you sure all connections are sealed and that nothing is loose or disconnected?

have you looked for any blockages in the snorkel?

 

[Krankin]

Cant really add much to this discussion but what i can say from personal experience is i can defiantly notice a drop in power since fitting my snorkel, has anyone else?

Thats a whole new can'o'worms there mate.
Better start a new thread.
Here we go again.

 

[Krankin]

a drop in power? that definately doesnt sound right....

why would power be lost when cooler air is being fed to the turbo?

are you sure all connections are sealed and that nothing is loose or disconnected?

have you looked for any blockages in the snorkel?

I'm with you on this one

 

[Ankaz]

Nah not trying to start another argument here,
It was factory fitted an Nissan about a month back, and maddogrc i was wondering the same thing, but there's NO doubt I've lost enough power for me to notice, that's why i was wondering if anyone else has noticed a big difference, if so I'll take it back to Nissan and get them to double check the installation.
The scary thing is, it was fitted the Thursday afternoon before Good Friday and the Easter break

 

[Krankin]

Something's not right there, should have it looked at.
Should gain some power, though probably would only show up on a dyno comparison,
and some better mileage,
a scangauge would assist you working that out reasonably acurately.

 

[Old.Tony]

Don't take it straight back, there might be a Snap-On tool lying in the pipework. Give the thing a shake yourself first!

Actually, to see if the thing is blocked, you can do this: attach an object about the size of a golf ball to some line (eg, epoxy some fishing line to a golf ball). Remove the snorkel head, open the bonnet and the air box, drop the object down the tube. If it bounces into where the air box, no problems.

If you're noticing a significant drop in performance, there could be numerous reasons. I'd also contemplate these issues:

* where did you get the fuel from? Where possible, I only get my fuel from high-turnover sites, not just because I have a lot of fun using high-flow nozzles, but because the diesel isn't going to be stale in the tanks

* fuel may also contain biodiesel and we're still not certain about how this affects performance in our engines. Nissan recommends that we stay away from biodiesel we have a thread about this: click here to read it.

* the ECU may need to be reset. I did a reset on mine, it hasn't hurt my vehicle any, but I didn't notice a big change in economy. However, other people have had some success. If you have a D22, read this post (the "pedal" is the accelerator pedal). I can't find the D40's procedure at the moment, even though I've done it myself!

Hopefully yours will be sorted.