Dual Battery Setup???

[FrootStik]

Hey all

Just looking into getting a dual battery setup in my Nav when it gets here.
I was wondering what everyone else has done with their installs, as i have seen a few different things?

Im no good with this sort of stuff, but if it gets put in the tray, does it still get wired up so it will charge and not drain the main battery? In my old Patrol i had the 2 batteries under the hood, with a piranha isolator set up.

I also wouldn't mind a setup that i can plug my solar panel into also.

Any ideas or pictures of your setups?

Thanks

 

[silvernavman]

There are plenty of threads, browse around. I have one installed in the tub that I have strapped in, connects to an Anderson plug (box) which also has an Engel and 12v plug. This runs to the main battery with an ignition isolator and the green cable unplugged from the fuse box. Works a treat, and enables me to easily remove a fully charged battery whenever I need, ie camping

 

[Old.Tony]

If you want to add solar, then you're talking DC-DC charger like a C-Tek D250S.

It's a bloody good choice - C-Tek pretty much write the text books on battery charging. The D250S is a dual charger - it'll pick the better source of power between alternator and solar and will use that source as a supply for its internal charging circuit, which unlike an isolator will do the bulk/absorption/float charging that you'd expect from a proper charger.

Isolators are basic - they prevent your starter battery from draining itself into the auxiliary, which is great if you're on a budget. Chargers like the D250S will turn themselves off if the input voltage falls too low, unless you're using the solar input (see below, this is important). Personally I'd still put a 60A relay in the way, activated by ignition - just to be sure. We've spent a LOT of time a long way from civilisation and the one thing you can NEVER, EVER compromise is your starter battery.

Now, about that solar input issue - newer cars have smart alternators. Once they've charged the cranker up, the alternator basically shuts down, returning a tiny amount of power to the engine. Personally I'd have never bothered doing it, but Nissan and other manufacturers have. You will find advice on the internet about using a relay to switch alternator power in to the solar input instead - the relay switches between solar and alternator feeds to the solar input on the C-Tek charger (because the solar input will use <13V to charge, but the alternator input won't). I think this is NOT worth doing.

There's a green wire on the alternator - disconnect it, and the "smart" bulldust stops, the alternator provides full power at all times and you're off and running.

Mounting points: if you're considering solar, you don't really want the battery up front, it should be somewhere down the back. There's heaps of room under the tub, unless you get a long range tank and there goes all that room. You can put smaller batteries in cradles under the cabin (particularly if you add a body lift).

Mine sits in the tub. It's convenient for me - but you might want that space for cargo.

 

[FrootStik]

woah! cheers for all that info
The blokes from Opposite Lock said this is what they would do.
Red Arc BCDC battery charger, Mount the battery in the tub. This charger cost around $550
But as i said, i know very little about this side of things.

 

[Munnerz]

If you want to add solar, then you're talking DC-DC charger like a C-Tek D250S.

It's a bloody good choice - C-Tek pretty much write the text books on battery charging. The D250S is a dual charger - it'll pick the better source of power between alternator and solar and will use that source as a supply for its internal charging circuit, which unlike an isolator will do the bulk/absorption/float charging that you'd expect from a proper charger.

Isolators are basic - they prevent your starter battery from draining itself into the auxiliary, which is great if you're on a budget. Chargers like the D250S will turn themselves off if the input voltage falls too low, unless you're using the solar input (see below, this is important). Personally I'd still put a 60A relay in the way, activated by ignition - just to be sure. We've spent a LOT of time a long way from civilisation and the one thing you can NEVER, EVER compromise is your starter battery.

Now, about that solar input issue - newer cars have smart alternators. Once they've charged the cranker up, the alternator basically shuts down, returning a tiny amount of power to the engine. Personally I'd have never bothered doing it, but Nissan and other manufacturers have. You will find advice on the internet about using a relay to switch alternator power in to the solar input instead - the relay switches between solar and alternator feeds to the solar input on the C-Tek charger (because the solar input will use <13V to charge, but the alternator input won't). I think this is NOT worth doing.

There's a green wire on the alternator - disconnect it, and the "smart" bulldust stops, the alternator provides full power at all times and you're off and running.

Mounting points: if you're considering solar, you don't really want the battery up front, it should be somewhere down the back. There's heaps of room under the tub, unless you get a long range tank and there goes all that room. You can put smaller batteries in cradles under the cabin (particularly if you add a body lift).

Mine sits in the tub. It's convenient for me - but you might want that space for cargo.

I was also looking at the redarc model, do you recommend ctek as a better system? Cause it's cheaper aswell so I would be silly to buy Redarc?! Lol

 

[Old.Tony]

I don't think Redarc make a BAD product, but let me be clear about it: C-Tek know about charging batteries, and everyone else looks at how C-Tek does it. Consider also that Redarc is Australian made and C-Tek is foreign. It's possible that the Redarc units themselves are made in China, to Redarc specifications - the same may be said for C-Tek. In reality, either unit will perform well.

The main difference to look at is the difference between an isolator and a charger. They are NOT the same thing.

Isolator: will protect your starter battery from being discharged by your auxiliary systems. They SHOULD be relatively inexpensive, they are little more than a relay that switches in and out at certain voltages.

Chargers: may not protect the starter battery (hence my recommendation for the ignition-powered relay) but they manage the battery near perfectly (since 'perfect' is so hard to achieve).

 

[TigerST]

Old.Tony is on the ball. But the redark one does in fact have an ignition wire as well.

I don't like the ctek ones you need a relay for a smart alt. But other wise they are fine.

 

[Munnerz]

I don't think Redarc make a BAD product, but let me be clear about it: C-Tek know about charging batteries, and everyone else looks at how C-Tek does it. Consider also that Redarc is Australian made and C-Tek is foreign. It's possible that the Redarc units themselves are made in China, to Redarc specifications - the same may be said for C-Tek. In reality, either unit will perform well.

The main difference to look at is the difference between an isolator and a charger. They are NOT the same thing.

Isolator: will protect your starter battery from being discharged by your auxiliary systems. They SHOULD be relatively inexpensive, they are little more than a relay that switches in and out at certain voltages.

Chargers: may not protect the starter battery (hence my recommendation for the ignition-powered relay) but they manage the battery near perfectly (since 'perfect' is so hard to achieve).

Out of curiosity, Where do you pick up the the ignition from if you run your DB setup in the tub?
Do you just run a wire to the front?

 

[TigerST]

Out of curiosity, Where do you pick up the the ignition from if you run your DB setup in the tub?
Do you just run a wire to the front?

Thats been my question other then runnig all the way back to the engine.

Only thing I can think off tap in to the park lights

 

[Old.Tony]

Since you have to get power supplied by the main battery/alternator, it's coming from the front. Ignition-live power is obtained in my car from the IPDM/ER (the black box behind the battery) and activates a relay, which draws power via a 40A thermal breaker and passes it via some 21mm2 cable (both positive AND negative to guarantee supply and capacity) to my tub.

There's no other way to get a reliable supply of decent amperage down that far from the source of that power (your cranker+alternator).

 

[FrootStik]

I don't think Redarc make a BAD product, but let me be clear about it: C-Tek know about charging batteries, and everyone else looks at how C-Tek does it. Consider also that Redarc is Australian made and C-Tek is foreign. It's possible that the Redarc units themselves are made in China, to Redarc specifications - the same may be said for C-Tek. In reality, either unit will perform well.

The main difference to look at is the difference between an isolator and a charger. They are NOT the same thing.

Isolator: will protect your starter battery from being discharged by your auxiliary systems. They SHOULD be relatively inexpensive, they are little more than a relay that switches in and out at certain voltages.

Chargers: may not protect the starter battery (hence my recommendation for the ignition-powered relay) but they manage the battery near perfectly (since 'perfect' is so hard to achieve).

Awesome info. Thanks Old.Tony

So the charger does not stop the aux battery draining the starter. What exactly is this relay you speak of? And as I'm a real dummy on this stuff, how does the charger connect up also?

Thanks bud

 

[Brownie82]

What do you think of these things or would you just be done and get a Redark etc??

http://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/cat...erpack-get-1-ark-powerpack-free/category/180/

 

[Old.Tony]

What do you think of these things or would you just be done and get a Redark etc??

http://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/cat...erpack-get-1-ark-powerpack-free/category/180/

They'd be good if they weren't sold out!!

Rays Outdoors also sell them. They make for good portable power. The only thing you need to do is ensure a decent voltage gets to them (bigger cable = less line loss).

 

[Old.Tony]

Awesome info. Thanks Old.Tony

So the charger does not stop the aux battery draining the starter. What exactly is this relay you speak of? And as I'm a real dummy on this stuff, how does the charger connect up also?

Thanks bud

The chargers SHOULD stop the draining, and the C-Tek DOES (the Redarc should too), but it's an area where I'm a little sensitive - I put the relay in to prevent it.

Okay, the setup is fairly simple. A relay is just a switch that you activate somehow - and the somehow in our case is a power source (from the IPDM/ER) which comes on when the ignition comes on. This basically forms a switch that passes battery power from the starter to the charger in the back - and the charger is connected to the aux battery.

Here's a basic diagram of what I'm talking about. I've included the numbers on the relay that you would connect the wires to. Hope that helps!

 

[Munnerz]

The chargers SHOULD stop the draining, and the C-Tek DOES (the Redarc should too), but it's an area where I'm a little sensitive - I put the relay in to prevent it.

Okay, the setup is fairly simple. A relay is just a switch that you activate somehow - and the somehow in our case is a power source (from the IPDM/ER) which comes on when the ignition comes on. This basically forms a switch that passes battery power from the starter to the charger in the back - and the charger is connected to the aux battery.

Here's a basic diagram of what I'm talking about. I've included the numbers on the relay that you would connect the wires to. Hope that helps!

Yeah btw i ear marked this for when I install my system.
Cheers Old tony =)

 

[miner-matt]

Yeah btw i ear marked this for when I install my system.
Cheers Old tony =)

Just a quick question Tony, with my dual battery system the run from the CTEK to the battery is about 250mm should I put an inline fuse here as well?

cheers
Matt

 

[Old.Tony]

The need for a fuse is partly dictated by the risk of something damaging the cable causing a fault - it's easy to snag a stick with your tyres that jags the cable, ripping the insulator away and jamming the conductor against the chassis - instant fire if there's no fuse. For a run inside a battery box or for such a short distance where there's little exposure to that sort of risk you don't NEED a fuse, but then you can put one in to protect things in case the device fails.

In your specific case the C-Tek will manage it for you so I wouldn't worry. There should be a fuse on it (or in it) which will protect it.

 

[Kochie]

I'm looking at getting a redarc charger (my mates old man works there so I can get one discounted). what model redarc charger are people running and what is good for the d40's? Would the bcdc1220 be good enough?

 

[Old.Tony]

Kochie, with the later model cars you'd get the low-voltage one, but since yours is a 2010 you could safely get the "older" version.

Thing is, the low voltage units will probably work perfectly with a "dumb" alternator like ours, and if you upgrade car later, you can take the unit with you - so I'd ask them if the low voltage unit IS safe to use with your alternator and grab that.

 

[Kochie]

Thanks old tony. The older version u are talking about is just the standard bcdc1220? And the low voltage is obviously the bcdc1220lv?