Discussion - "illegal" modifications to vehicles

[merchant]

Rather than start a new thread......
Going to get a second set of tyres this week fitted to a new set of Sunny's. They will be 265 x 75 x 16 - bearing in mind that original equipment is 265 x 70 x 16. Legal or not? If this thread wasn't going at this point in time I wouldn't even bother asking as I would assume that if they fit then so be it.
What about ARB rear bars, Bull bars, side steps and side bars? Isn't the vehicle ADR approved through crash testing front rear and side to provide x amount of crumple? How do these accessories fit within the legal parameters?

Aido, what are you going to do about a spare? I'm assuming that will stay as a 265 x 70 x 16?

 

[ants_oz]

So for the sake of argument they are illegal - NOT SAYING THEY ARE - If they were purchased in good faith from a distributor as a viable accessory for your 4by then who would be liable should for whatever reason they get undue attention? The vehicle owner, the distributor / fitter or the manufacturer?
As far as I know none of us are QC's but you can see how easy it might be to step over to the wrong side of the law.
What if a bar like this was fitted to a heavily modified vehicle that sought engineers approval for engine and suspension work - would a bar like this also require approval from the engineer thus placing the onus on the engineer for allowing it on the road?

Agreed, for the sake of discussion, let's say they are illegal.

It is up to the owner of the vehicle of to make sure the item is okay. There may be some civil liability from the manufacturer or distributor, however there would be no criminal liability. It's the owners responsibility to make sure the vehicle is roadworthy. No one elses.

(Actually, I think it's the operator's (driver's) responsibility, but let's face it - most private vehicles are owner-driver)

With regard to the engineering question - the engineer will check what he is asked to check, and document those items. If the engineer is qualified to inspect the bar, then if he is asked to, he will no doubt inspect it and make a judgement. But considering the big companies have to crash test to prove their bullbars dont affect airbag deployment, I don't see how an engineer can sign off without seeing the designs crash tested. So unless asked to consider it, the engineer won't look at it, and will make no statement one way or the other with regard to the bullbar.

 

[Aido]

Aido, what are you going to do about a spare? I'm assuming that will stay as a 265 x 70 x 16?

Gave that some thought and I think I will trundle down to the wreckers and grab a factory spare wheel to fit a matching size - so long as it works out cheaper for the rim. Sunraysia's are only $110 a piece so If I can get a factory spare for less than that and dig up a roadworthy tyre of the same size off fleabay irrespective of make,wear or tread pattern then I should have that covered.

 

[SOLID D22]

Yes i understand what your argument is and I've seen the things your mentioning,
but,
I must say then V/Roads are letting some of their "Own" requirements as per their website go by, as one of those conditions clearly states RWC, as it also states its NOT a permit to carry out mods not allowed on street rego,
(putting aside what people do AFTER plates/street reg is gained)
though dedicated 'Street Rods' have some more lenient conditions
or,
they rely on that club organisation to provide the correct documentation and carry the liability.

Much the same way as they do with licensed RWC providers,
and we all know one of those that will fudge an item or two.

Again it comes back to the individual, the topic of this thread and one's own RESPONSIBILITY for their OWN ACTIONS by knowingly driving an illegally modded vehicle on a public road if thats the case.

Spot on answer.

 

[Old.Tony]

I just want to jump in and comment about the bullbar issue.

You'll notice that modern bullbars all follow the curve of the vehicle, so that with the vehicle travelling from your left to your right, you could cup a backwards 'C' around the bullbar (in your mind, of course). It's a smooth following of the vehicle's front line, or near to it.

That's in contrast with the older design - where, with the vehicle moving from your left to your right, you'd see the bar like a 'K'. In an impact with a pedestrian, the 'C' bullbar allows the pedestrian to bend over the front and bounce off. With the 'K' bullbar, they are snapped over the top and broken in half.

On the suspension lift: if you raise your front suspension AT ALL - no matter if it is 10mm or 50mm, you MUST get a wheel alignment afterwards, or your tyres will quickly become the item that renders your car unroadworthy.

 

[bloodviper]

well un like all of you guys i own a lowerd 2wd d21 i have droped the back 3 inchs and the front 6 inchs and it handels a shit load better i spun out in the wet today due to the rain and shity road i fell if i was in the same ute standard it would have been alot worse

i have owned a 86 single cab that was lowerd 8 inchs allround and had 20 inch rims on it and that thing out handled most cars i have driven yet they are all deamed un safe

i have also been pulled up in another ute on 20s and the cop complimented my rims and said they are far safer then the skinny little cheese cutters these d21 come on

 

[maddogrc]

if your super low car got hit by a 4wd, he'd probably go straight over you...

its better to hit things head on then try go under them

 

[maddogrc]

also most lowered cars are deemed unsafe because most people are cheap, they just chop the springs or use crappy lowering blocks.

also dropping a car very low, affects your geometry, aka, massive camber wear. which means the wheels arent flush/sitting correctly to the ground.

 

[joshy]

also most lowered cars are deemed unsafe because most people are cheap, they just chop the springs or use crappy lowering blocks.

also dropping a car very low, affects your geometry, aka, massive camber wear. which means the wheels arent flush/sitting correctly to the ground.

And so does lifting it.... to lower a car correctly is alot more work then lifting and although i may not see the point ive got alot of respect for the guys that do the right job of it. your always going to get guys lifting and lowering dodgy tho wether its illegal or not. A fully engineered 4" lifted 4wd can be perfectly safe with the correct person and attitude driving it, get the wrong person and attitude, same car and it will be a weapon.

 

[bloodviper]

i have lowerd mine the same way any shop would wound down the front and rest the back i use to run blocks i have never had any problems but plans are to have it on full air suspenion by the end of the year

 

[maddogrc]

i'm sorry, i just dont see the point of lowered cars.

there is no benefit from what i can see, even though you say handling, but if driving to the speeds then any car should handle properly.

 

[Matt76]

well un like all of you guys i own a lowerd 2wd d21 i have droped the back 3 inchs and the front 6 inchs and it handels a shit load better i spun out in the wet today due to the rain and shity road i fell if i was in the same ute standard it would have been alot worse

i have owned a 86 single cab that was lowerd 8 inchs allround and had 20 inch rims on it and that thing out handled most cars i have driven yet they are all deamed un safe

i have also been pulled up in another ute on 20s and the cop complimented my rims and said they are far safer then the skinny little cheese cutters these d21 come on

If your ute was not lowered you probably not have spun out. With very little suspension travel left the first thing to give is your tyre traction. Sure they handle superbly in the dry but part of the reason they are deemed illegal is because lowered cars are more dangerous in the wet. I have had quite a few so I am not just bagging you.

 

[joshy]

Mates got a lowered Commodore ute, Airbags in the rear. When its dumped it scrapes on the road. The front is just wound down so every bump in the road feels like a giant pothole. I hate driving it because you feel like your going to rip the front end out.

 

[WIR35]

I think generally people need to have a lot more respect and a deeper understanding of the design and engineering that goes into vehicles rather than just their own limited knowledge and opinions. You can raise a car 4" and the suspension components can be as strong as you like, but you've raised the centre of gravity of the vehicle 4" which is not what it was designed for. It's all good to say that you drive the vehicle accordingly, but if you're on the highway cruising along and someone cuts you off, you swerve to miss them, and your car flips over because the centre of gravity is too high.....you get my point.

Same goes with people whinging that the cops pick on them for having rims that are too big, cars too low etc. It might look cool, but there is a good reason why these regulations are put in place and I don't think it's just for the sake of giving the police something to do.

 

[Krankin]

well un like all of you guys i own a lowerd 2wd d21 i have droped the back 3 inchs and the front 6 inchs and it handels a shit load better i spun out in the wet today due to the rain and shity road i fell if i was in the same ute standard it would have been alot worse

i have owned a 86 single cab that was lowerd 8 inchs allround and had 20 inch rims on it and that thing out handled most cars i have driven yet they are all deamed un safe

i have also been pulled up in another ute on 20s and the cop complimented my rims and said they are far safer then the skinny little cheese cutters these d21 come on

Post up some pics of the chariot....

Are you comming on our next trip up to the High Country?
You can show us all your "shit load better" handling Nav.

 

[KraftyPg]

Are you comming on our next trip up to the High Country?
You can show us all your "shit load better" handling Nav.

I hope no standard D40's are going or the lowered D21 might not have the lowest ground clearance.

Although I do love the way that when modified cars spin out, loose control, or just crash so many of the owners are so quick to blame the conditions before their own driving or modding. I know I am an excellent driver and nothing is my fault but honestly all you vehicle modders out there can't possibly be in the same position as me.

 

[Krankin]

.

 

[Krankin]

Although I do love the way that when modified cars spin out, loose control, or just crash so many of the owners are so quick to blame the conditions before their own driving or modding.

Yep, its always someone else's fault.

 

[bloodviper]

i respect you 4wd guys but there are sum that take it to far sum of the bull bars and driving lights are dangors to people but i still like the look of a lifted 4wd when it comes down to the rules and regs we get hit with alot of the same ones





i still had heaps of travel in the rear of my duel cab when it was stock hight every round about in the wet it use to break traction now it is very rare i have had a few stock cars and utes slide abit on that corner even my mate who drives like a grandma in his excel still slides on it in the wet

 

[Krankin]

i respect you 4wd guys but there are sum that take it to far sum of the bull bars and driving lights are dangors to people but i still like the look of a lifted 4wd when it comes down to the rules and regs we get hit with alot of the same ones





i still had heaps of travel in the rear of my duel cab when it was stock hight every round about in the wet it use to break traction now it is very rare i have had a few stock cars and utes slide abit on that corner even my mate who drives like a grandma in his excel still slides on it in the wet

Its all good mate.

yes it true some 4by's take it too far, but same goes for lots of others

maybe you need slow down a bit when entering a roundabout and less on the pedal when exiting.
In 28 years of driving and many types of vehicles and power outputs, the only times i have lost traction is because i wanted to or on the dragstrip..

Remember....Drive to the road conditions that prevail before you.
You are supposed to be in control of the vehicle not the other way around.