Discussion - "illegal" modifications to vehicles

[merchant]

WOW, interesting topic.

We could sit around a campfire, next to our modified Navs, and talk about this topic until the cows come home.

When a vehicle is designed it is designed by the engineers for the motor company with a purpose in mind. The design parameters and parts used are a balance between what is needed for that purpose, what market they will be aiming at and what $$$$$ the motor company can make. For that reason any vehicle manufactured sometimes isn't made with the ideal parameters and parts. That's where aftermarket mods come into play. Better brakes pads and rotors, small lift, intercoolers, its endless.

I believe the correct 'conservative' mods improve the driving experience, handling of a vehicle and all-round safety on the roads. Since i have lifted my vehicle by '40mm' it stops on a dime and corners far better than when original.

Any mod only becomes an issue when it causes a mechanical failure or traffic crash. I would like to hear from anyone who has made a insurance claim of some sort after a traffic crash and been rejected because of a modification.

It might be interesting to note that an insurance company, or in the case of a warranty claim - the manufacturer, must prove that the modification caused the traffic crash or another part to fail. They simply can not refuse a claim based on a modification, that is unless the mod did cause the crash eg. 6" lift + tight turn = rollover.

 

[Krankin]

WOW, interesting topic.

We could sit around a campfire, next to our modified Navs, and talk about this topic until the cows come home.

When a vehicle is designed it is designed by the engineers for the motor company with a purpose in mind. The design parameters and parts used are a balance between what is needed for that purpose, what market they will be aiming at and what $$$$$ the motor company can make. For that reason any vehicle manufactured sometimes isn't made with the ideal parameters and parts. That's where aftermarket mods come into play. Better brakes pads and rotors, small lift, intercoolers, its endless.

I believe the correct 'conservative' mods improve the driving experience, handling of a vehicle and all-round safety on the roads. Since i have lifted my vehicle by '40mm' it stops on a dime and corners far better than when original.

Any mod only becomes an issue when it causes a mechanical failure or traffic crash. I would like to hear from anyone who has made a insurance claim of some sort after a traffic crash and been rejected because of a modification.

It might be interesting to note that an insurance company, or in the case of a warranty claim - the manufacturer, must prove that the modification caused the traffic crash or another part to fail. They simply can not refuse a claim based on a modification, that is unless the mod did cause the crash eg. 6" lift + tight turn = rollover.

The manufacters make the vehicle to comply with the standards of the day, current fashions and for PUBLIC ROAD USE.

If someone needs to mod so they can 'rock climb', 'offroad, etc' but want to drive on the road 99% of other times its their responsibility to have that vehicle comply with the standards of the road.
'
If that does'nt allow you to drive your 'rock climber' on the 'public roads', then thats it.

I cant drive my drag car on the road, even though its a factory produced sedan to start with, but only on the drag strip...thats life.


Again as has been metioned before,
you are going under the assumption that 'you wont have an accident in your illegally modded, superior vehicle cause you are an excellent driver'.

And again,

It will matter to the insurer and the road authorities if your vehicle is not roadworthy compatible due to your mods from standard, cause it should'nt be on a public road.

Its not rocket science.


PS.. in your last line of your post....have you informed your insurer of the mods to your vehicle as required?

and I'm struggling to understand how a vehicle, especially one that is high allready can improve its cornering abililty by raising it even further?

 

[ants_oz]

Hey Anthony! Curious as to whether or not your tyres (on the Nav) are engineered or not.

Cheers Brad

Hi Brad,

No, the tyres on my nav (265/75R16) have not been engineer approved. Why do you ask? Is it because they are greater than 15mm larger diameter than the tyres specified by the vehicle manufacturer?

(Sorry, would have replied sooner but just got back from a hunting trip.)

 

[SOLID D22]

Hmmmm!

I had a very different understanding about 'Club Rego',

but by what some are saying here,

I can build a 'Pro-Stock Sedan', get Club Rego and drive merrily down the street.

I'd like to see that!

Club reg is only for cars i think that are 25 or 30 years and older.
You would be suprised how far you can modify a car and drive it on club plates, a group n race charger with race shocks/suspension, just one racing recaro seat, internal roll cage no dash just rev tacho no exhaust system just pipe from extractors to side of car, lowered and so on what you can do to a group n racer, all that done and the guy drove it from the albury chrysler show on the border to winton race way and obviously home after that.
Club reg lets you do what normal reg doesnt allow and get away with it to a certain extent, just because its modified the way it is (the race car) its still as safe or even safer than a stock valiant.
A pro stock race car was never driven on a road from day dot so its harder to get away with it, where as group n is much closer to stock but still way illegal by any normal means of todays standards.

Ok realistically its up to the guy checking out your car in the first place that gives the signature for you to be able to obtain club reg. And that person is usually the club president so its not hard to get it.

 

[Krankin]

Club reg is only for cars i think that are 25 or 30 years and older.
You would be suprised how far you can modify a car and drive it on club plates, a group n race charger with race shocks/suspension, just one racing recaro seat, internal roll cage no dash just rev tacho no exhaust system just pipe from extractors to side of car, lowered and so on what you can do to a group n racer, all that done and the guy drove it from the albury chrysler show on the border to winton race way and obviously home after that.
Club reg lets you do what normal reg doesnt allow and get away with it to a certain extent, just because its modified the way it is (the race car) its still as safe or even safer than a stock valiant.
A pro stock race car was never driven on a road from day dot so its harder to get away with it, where as group n is much closer to stock but still way illegal by any normal means of todays standards.

Ok realistically its up to the guy checking out your car in the first place that gives the signature for you to be able to obtain club reg. And that person is usually the club president so its not hard to get it.

Yes, as we well know here,

we can also heavily mod our Navs (after street rego has been gained)

on street rego and drive them on the roads,

abeit illegally,

but still would not quallify for a RWC if presented so,

which you need for club reg.



Again we are getting away from the rules set out by the authorities and

pushing the boundaries set out by these rules and away from the topic.

As per VICROADS, and Club Reg,

the link i provided earlier,

its them and not your club President who give out the plates,

provided you comply with the conditions set out by the permit guidelines

which, does'nt include any of the mods we here are discussing about our Navs,

infact Club Rego cannot even be considered for our purposes here.

As for the Pro stock racer,

i can argue that the car was indeed a factory street car driven on the road

legally once,

but has been modified to suit my needs much the same way many have

argued here about their mods, and,

if you look up the VICROADS w/site,

you'll see that Club Rego is not designed to allow you to get away with

mods you cant with normal street rego.

Look it up mate, it all there.

 

[Nevyn]

Hi Brad,

No, the tyres on my nav (265/75R16) have not been engineer approved. Why do you ask? Is it because they are greater than 15mm larger diameter than the tyres specified by the vehicle manufacturer?

(Sorry, would have replied sooner but just got back from a hunting trip.)

Pretty much the reason!
I have the same size on mine (D22) and again they're 15mm greater than the specified size on the tyre placard. One day when funds permit I may get them signed off. Now for the grey area, my vehicle is business registered for commercial purposes (I can't find the info ATM) and the wheel size is apparently acceptable (???? maybe)

 

[Krankin]

Pretty much the reason!
I have the same size on mine (D22) and again they're 15mm greater than the specified size on the tyre placard. One day when funds permit I may get them signed off. Now for the grey area, my vehicle is business registered for commercial purposes (I can't find the info ATM) and the wheel size is apparently acceptable (???? maybe)

Isnt that the standard size on a D22 anyway,
i thought it was,
must go and have another look.

 

[Aido]

265 70 is standard.

 

[Nevyn]

No, standard on a D22 is 265/70/16 which has an overall diameter of 777.24 mm. The 265/75/16's have an overall diameter of 803.65 mm, a difference of 26.41mm.
Tire Size Calculator - tire & wheel plus sizing

Cheers Brad

 

[Krankin]

Oh ok,
saved me a trip,
just the profile a bit larger.

cheers.

 

[maddogrc]

Pretty much the reason!
I have the same size on mine (D22) and again they're 15mm greater than the specified size on the tyre placard. One day when funds permit I may get them signed off. Now for the grey area, my vehicle is business registered for commercial purposes (I can't find the info ATM) and the wheel size is apparently acceptable (???? maybe)

the navara, as with most utes, is classified as a 'goods' vehicle (commercial) and because of that, can legally have an increased tyre diameter of 50mm max, though that is the WA law.

you'd need to check your state

 

[ants_oz]

Pretty much the reason!
I have the same size on mine (D22) and again they're 15mm greater than the specified size on the tyre placard. One day when funds permit I may get them signed off. Now for the grey area, my vehicle is business registered for commercial purposes (I can't find the info ATM) and the wheel size is apparently acceptable (???? maybe)

Yeah, it's an interesting one. It is one of the examples where states and territories can't agree, and are inconsistent with the VSB's (Vehicle Standards Bulletins - also referred to as the NCOP) that the Fed Gov't put out. Now, at this level, the VSB's are a guideline only - it's up to the relevant state/territory to implement all or part thereof.

In the ACT (where I live, and where my vehicle is registered), the ACT Gov't position is that for light vehicle modifications (and this is VERY much cutting a long story short), the VSB's will form the rules.

That is a GREAT thing in my opinion, and not just because they have deferred to a set of national guidelines, but those guidelines allow, for off road passenger carrying vehicles and for commercial vehicles, up to 50mm increase in diameter (as you already mentioned).

Now the situation in NSW may be entirely different - I can't be certain, and I'll be completely up-front when I say that I haven't investigated it at all - I haven't had the need - but a brief scan of what the rules SEEM to infer is that you must fit manufacturer specified sizes. But again, I haven't investigated the situation very well for NSW. In Victoria, they have the 15mm rule for all vehicles it seems (again, not deep research though).

Hope that helps mate - I guess it's one of the few benefits of living in Canberra.

 

[ants_oz]

the navara, as with most utes, is classified as a 'goods' vehicle (commercial) and because of that, can legally have an increased tyre diameter of 50mm max, though that is the WA law.

you'd need to check your state

Actually, whether a vehicle is "goods carrying" or "passenger carrying" is determined by the GVM versus Tare, using a formula that includes the number of seats in the vehicle and a standard passenger weight.

That however doesn't determine whether the vehicle is for commercial use or not - for a vehicle to be assessed as commercial use it must have business registration, and use of the vehicle must be able to be directly attributed to the conduct of trade. The words aren't perfect, but you get the idea...

Unfortunately "good carrying" doesn't automatically mean "commercial use". It's a taxation law issue.

 

[maddogrc]

well thats what the road transport mob here told me it was, and i never told them i have it registered for business use.

everythings just screwed up

 

[Jason]

Yeah, it's an interesting one. It is one of the examples where states and territories can't agree, and are inconsistent with the VSB's (Vehicle Standards Bulletins - also referred to as the NCOP) that the Fed Gov't put out. Now, at this level, the VSB's are a guideline only - it's up to the relevant state/territory to implement all or part thereof.

In the ACT (where I live, and where my vehicle is registered), the ACT Gov't position is that for light vehicle modifications (and this is VERY much cutting a long story short), the VSB's will form the rules.

That is a GREAT thing in my opinion, and not just because they have deferred to a set of national guidelines, but those guidelines allow, for off road passenger carrying vehicles and for commercial vehicles, up to 50mm increase in diameter (as you already mentioned).

Now the situation in NSW may be entirely different - I can't be certain, and I'll be completely up-front when I say that I haven't investigated it at all - I haven't had the need - but a brief scan of what the rules SEEM to infer is that you must fit manufacturer specified sizes. But again, I haven't investigated the situation very well for NSW. In Victoria, they have the 15mm rule for all vehicles it seems (again, not deep research though).

Hope that helps mate - I guess it's one of the few benefits of living in Canberra.

In QLD your tyres are illegal.

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebde8d0521b67c6/Pdf_modification_motor_vehicles2.pdf

The rim diameter may be varied from the standard size
but the overall diameter of the tyre must not vary by
more than +15mm or -26mm.

This is where I think it is ridiculous, variations across states. Does this mean you will not drive your vehicle to QLD Anthony?

 

[ants_oz]

In QLD your tyres are illegal.

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebde8d0521b67c6/Pdf_modification_motor_vehicles2.pdf



This is where I think it is ridiculous, variations across states. Does this mean you will not drive your vehicle to QLD Anthony?

Nope, it means that my vehicle is legal in the territory in which it is registered. Every other state and territory is obliged to honour that. I believe that is constitutional law.

 

[Jason]

Plenty of stories of the QLD cops booking interstaters.

 

[Krankin]

I guess it's one of the few benefits of living in Canberra.

Not to mention Fireworks and XXX!

 

[Jason]

I don't know whether it's because the cops didnt know better or the people that were booked didnt bother to appeal it, regardless I'll take your word as you were in the game.

So if you agree that laws and regulations are in place to comply with safety, the safe limit on certain items comes down to the decision of a person or body? It almost becomes that person/bodies opinion, whether based on testing or case studies.

Just seems farcical in my opinion.

Edit: Sorry another question, if the police honour each states rules how do they check on them. Do they carry copies or radio through questions?

 

[Nevyn]

Interesting point Jason Re: your edit. Like my mechanic said unless it's ridiculous noones even going to look at your tyres.