Discussion - "illegal" modifications to vehicles

[Old.Tony]

Only fact if you havent increased your wheel track. 35's, and 4"~ lift but my wheel track was increased more then 6", Never lifted a wheel onroad and handled fine.

And there's a distinct difference between you, and someone who doesn't bother getting an engineer out to certify and approve the modifications.

The only thing I'd be wary of in increasing the wheel track is exceeding the limits for light vehicles. The engineer should be aware of that anyway.

For those reading that may not be aware, a wider wheel track places the vehicle's primary support (where the tyre touches the road) further from the centreline of the vehicle, which means the lever from that point to the mount of the axle is longer, so all of the mounting points need to be stronger than originally designed or they could break - from even striking a pothole, and God knows how many of those our beloved councils etc have provided for us to play dodgems on Australian roads.

 

[ants_oz]

I put a big whack of information in the "legal or not" thread about ADR's, "type approval" and such. Interesting background for anyone who's interested, and might help plug some gaps in information.

Again, keep the good discussion coming

 

[Krankin]

Only fact if you havent increased your wheel track. 35's, and 4"~ lift but my wheel track was increased more then 6", Never lifted a wheel onroad and handled fine.

And this wider track was gained how?

Via a new overall wider diff/axle housing and axles
or
with wider rims with larger then stock offsets.

if via the offseting of rim centres, are your tyres protruding outside the vehicle body...illegal.

Have you had the wheel/rims engineered as now you have altered the load characteristics of that area and
not to mention now with higher loading on the wheel/axle bearings that are susceptible to premature bearing failure.

This is FACT,
also I and friends have endured this many times back when we used to fit wide offset rims and T/A's to our early holdens,
mind you the laws were a bit more lax then.
Been there done that!

Anyway how many people widen their track after they've raised their vehicle?

Moral....
Mod one thing, affect other things.
Everything you do has consequences.

 

[joshy]

And there's a distinct difference between you, and someone who doesn't bother getting an engineer out to certify and approve the modifications.

The only thing I'd be wary of in increasing the wheel track is exceeding the limits for light vehicles. The engineer should be aware of that anyway.

For those reading that may not be aware, a wider wheel track places the vehicle's primary support (where the tyre touches the road) further from the centreline of the vehicle, which means the lever from that point to the mount of the axle is longer, so all of the mounting points need to be stronger than originally designed or they could break - from even striking a pothole, and God knows how many of those our beloved councils etc have provided for us to play dodgems on Australian roads.

Before i started the sas the nav wasnt engineered in anyway. You would have to have a stupid amount of offset or wheel spacers for it to have a noticeable affect on strength. I know multiple hiluxs that have been running 2" plus wheel spacers for years with no dramas.

 

[joshy]

And this wider track was gained how?

Via a new overall wider diff/axle housing and axles
or
with wider rims with larger then stock offsets.

if via the offseting of rim centres, are your tyres protruding outside the vehicle body...illegal.

Have you had the wheel/rims engineered as now you have altered the load characteristics of that area and
not to mention now with higher loading on the wheel/axle bearings that are susceptible to premature bearing failure.

This is FACT cause I and friends have endured this many times back when we used to fit wide offset rims and T/A's to our early holdens,
mind you the laws were a bit more lax then.
Been there done that!

Anyway how many people widen their track after they've raised their vehicle?

Moral....
Mod one thing, affect other things.
Everything you do has consequences.

wider rims, wider offset and wider tyres and external beadlocks. Yeah they protruded outside the vehichle, so i put some garden edging over, safe again
as above i know of 4wds with smaller bearings running bigger offsets with no issues. But it is all about preventative maintainance.
Anyone serious about 4wding would widen their track at least half of what they lift it.

 

[Old.Tony]

Before i started the sas the nav wasnt engineered in anyway. You would have to have a stupid amount of offset or wheel spacers for it to have a noticeable affect on strength. I know multiple hiluxs that have been running 2" plus wheel spacers for years with no dramas.

While that's true, it's still the reason for the limits in ADR. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and they'll err on the side of caution - as already discussed. Thrust bearings are already under a great deal of strain and the increase in force applied is not always linear.

As stupidly restrictive as some of the laws may seem, for Fred Normal they're exactly what the rest of us ordered. As you are proving before our very eyes, the loophole of having mods certified is how we achieve legitimate improvements, and kudos to you for doing that.

 

[Krankin]

wider rims, wider offset and wider tyres and external beadlocks. Yeah they protruded outside the vehichle, so i put some garden edging over, safe again
as above i know of 4wds with smaller bearings running bigger offsets with no issues. But it is all about preventative maintainance.
Anyone serious about 4wding would widen their track at least half of what they lift it.

Yeah, i see where your at
but I'm just keeping true to the thread topic
"Illegal mods"

Which do yours fall under?

 

[joelus]

Very interesting read...

It is stupid how one state can have one law and another a different one, but if your from qld driving through another state you can get done?? We need to start an angry mob like on the simpsons and get this changed

My brother got a canary for changing his HQ Premmy lap sash belts to proper retractable... WTF! The cop also asked him if he had a mod plate for the turbo conversion...............................there was no turbo!! IDIOT!! prob getting off topic bit there though! 100w bulbs for your headlights are illegal as are HID lights... even though there not on some european cars that come out with them. and as solid said, high beam blinds the crap out of you. it doesnt matter whether the person knows they are breaking the law when they do the mod or not... cops wont be interested in your excuse, still gonna be booked.

I think there has to be some kind of lineance here... fair enough if its illegal its illegal, law is law... BUT! come on, some things are just completely stupid. Doesnt mean im saying go out there and do it anyway, thats illegal. What pisses me off is that you can get done for having big tyres on your 4by, its not only the amount its hanging out the guard, it cannot be increase by certain amounts over standard from the manufacturer, difference between states. ...and as your getting your ticket, a honda civic drives past with 20's, or a old hq ute with the doors falling off because of rust and a bull skull wired to the grille!!! that actually happened to me!
like what the hell, its all up to the guy that pulls you over! most of them are dumb arses!!

And alot of new cars wont pass machinery test... trust me on that one!! And alot of engineers are rediculously over priced! but you have to have it!! as previously stated...

... if something happens, wave goodbye to your insurance and also if some is killed, you dont want that on your head!!!

 

[joelus]

clarify i was talking bout headlamps not spotlights regards, if you change from 60/55w to 100w, it causes "dazzle" which is illegal. also if you have fog lights opperating without the conditions requiring it, it is illegal.

 

[Old.Tony]

There are also rules regarding the colour of the light allowed - if I recall correctly, 4,000K is as high as the law allows you to go, yet places like AutoBarn actively promote going as high as 5,000K with their range of Philips bulbs.

 

[joelus]

Yep, only white light is to be used!

also...

The limit on the amount by which a vehicle can be raised or lowered (a 4x4 is more likely to be raised than to be lowered) is that the clearance between the suspension bump-stops cannot be `altered by more than 1/3 of that specified by the manufacturer'. In addition, coil springs may not be cut. Obviously.

There are limits to big wheels and tyres. The largest allowed rim increase is 25mm (1") larger than the widest wheel that the manufacturer offers for the vehicle, which kinda sucks for my 15x10's on my patrol... Tyres must be appropriate to the rims and the load and speed rating must equal or better the manufacturer's specifications.

This means that the owner of a fast and heavy 4WD, such as a Patrol or a an 80-series Land-Cruiser, is much more limited in the choice of tyres than the owner of a more mundane vehicle, say a Panda...

The rim diameter can be increased by 50mm (2") but the overall tyre diameter cannot be increased by more than 15mm. all those navaras with 20" rims beware....

The track can be increased by up to 25mm, but not on cars with front-wheel drive and McPherson struts, nor with diagonally split brake systems.

 

[joshy]

Yeah, i see where your at
but I'm just keeping true to the thread topic
"Illegal mods"

Which do yours fall under?

was illegal but new set up will be engineered. Until they can write a set of laws that doesnt condridict itself, and applies to all states with reasonable allowments for engineering custom work then there all a load of crap. Its easy just dont have an accident. dont drive your 4b like a race car and try and take corners at 110 in the wet on muddies, dont tailgate and leave generous time for breaking. If you dont have an accident it doesnt matter wether your vehichle is "illegal" or not.

 

[joshy]

Yep, only white light is to be used!

also...

The limit on the amount by which a vehicle can be raised or lowered (a 4x4 is more likely to be raised than to be lowered) is that the clearance between the suspension bump-stops cannot be `altered by more than 1/3 of that specified by the manufacturer'. In addition, coil springs may not be cut. Obviously.

There are limits to big wheels and tyres. The largest allowed rim increase is 25mm (1") larger than the widest wheel that the manufacturer offers for the vehicle, which kinda sucks for my 15x10's on my patrol... Tyres must be appropriate to the rims and the load and speed rating must equal or better the manufacturer's specifications.

This means that the owner of a fast and heavy 4WD, such as a Patrol or a an 80-series Land-Cruiser, is much more limited in the choice of tyres than the owner of a more mundane vehicle, say a Panda...

The rim diameter can be increased by 50mm (2") but the overall tyre diameter cannot be increased by more than 15mm. all those navaras with 20" rims beware....

The track can be increased by up to 25mm, but not on cars with front-wheel drive and McPherson struts, nor with diagonally split brake systems.

That doesnt apply for all states..

 

[ants_oz]

...f you dont have an accident it doesnt matter wether your vehichle is "illegal" or not.

Actually that is not quite true...

In every State and Territory of Australia there is a mechanism by which any member of the public can report to the registration authorities a vehicle they believe to be unroadworthy (must state the reason they believe it to be unroadworthy).

What often occurs with these reports is that a technical officer does a heap of driving around - checks out the registered address of the vehicle etc. Often a quick eyeball from driving past will tell the techo whether or not the vehicle may be of interest. Sometimes the rego people will get a whole heap of these reports and engage a contractor to do the looking around. If it appears the vehicle may be of interest, or if they just can't seem to find it for a quick squizz, the owner gets a notice in the mail to present the vehicle for inspection. If they don't present it for inspection, they sometimes get a reminder, other times the rego is just cancelled. Yes, they can do that. If there are a heap of reports in a certain geographic area, the rego authorities will setup roadside checking station.

Anyway, back to the reports by the public...

I have been reliably informed that in NSW, VIC and the ACT (not sure of the other States and Territory), the majority of reports of possibly unroadworthy vehicles are lodged by someone who knows the owner of the infringing vehicle. Next most common is general public who just report it because they think they are doing the right thing.

So while you might think you are safe until you have an accident, you could also quite possibly be totally wrong in your assumption.

Not having a go at you, just letting you (and the other members out there) know that fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, it happens.

 

[Krankin]

Its easy just dont have an accident.

If you dont have an accident it doesnt matter wether your vehichle is "illegal" or not.

Cmon mate,

are you serious.


Like i wrote earlier in the post, if it aint

"Road Registered/ Roadworthy" and "3rd party insured",

stay OFF the roads.

 

[Jason]

any member of the public can report to the registration authorities a vehicle they believe to be unroadworthy

Here's a perfect example of that, long read......

Yumpets Xj - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM

 

[Jason]

Here's a perfect example of that, long read......

Yumpets Xj - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM

Basically a guys build up thread with illegal modifications and someone dobs him in. The sh*tfight starts here.....

Yumpets Xj - Page 14 - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM

 

[SOLID D22]

Actually my misses was involved in an accident were her pulsar got t boned at a set of lights. The car was a year old and it was a mess, she was ok but was still taken to hospital by ambulance for checks and stuff, when i heard about the accident i rushed to the scene only to find a driver from tasmania driving an unroadworthy vb commodore which was held together by rust, NO side or rear view mirrors and 2 door handles were held on by gaffa tape, he also had the bodgiest home made bull bar attached to the front.
The condition of this vehicle was of no interest to the policeman and said that your insurance companies have to fight it out.
Roadworthy or unroadworthy cops dont give a shit about your vehicle unless someone dies in an accident, so some previous statements are not true.

 

[ants_oz]

Actually my misses was involved in an accident were her pulsar got t boned at a set of lights. The car was a year old and it was a mess, she was ok but was still taken to hospital by ambulance for checks and stuff, when i heard about the accident i rushed to the scene only to find a driver from tasmania driving an unroadworthy vb commodore which was held together by rust, NO side or rear view mirrors and 2 door handles were held on by gaffa tape, he also had the bodgiest home made bull bar attached to the front.
The condition of this vehicle was of no interest to the policeman and said that your insurance companies have to fight it out.
Roadworthy or unroadworthy cops dont give a shit about your vehicle unless someone dies in an accident, so some previous statements are not true.

So your experience sums up EVERY situation does it?

I was a cop for 10 years. You'll just have to believe me when I say that your last sentence is completely wrong.

I know of one example VERY recently here in Canberra where, following the accident, the prang gang (aka accident investigation) siezed one of the vehicles involved and basically took it apart bolt by bolt. PLENTY of problems. PLENTY of money in fines. PLENTY of problems for the owner. And no-one was injured in the accident.

 

[joshy]

Cmon mate,

are you serious.


Like i wrote earlier in the post, if it aint

"Road Registered/ Roadworthy" and "3rd party insured",

stay OFF the roads.

Like i wrote earlier, when the authories write up a competent set of ADR's that work with the chance to get it all engineered properly then sure. Dont get me wrong, i dont like it, but i am playing by there rules. Nav wont be seeing the road till fully engineered and insured. Spent to much money for sum F*ckwit to run into me.