K
Adding 2-Stroke oil to Diesel
- Thread starter Jason
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navaras should not be making ANY smoke. the 2 stroke can actually help a little bit tho the main culprit for smoke is crap fuel.
maddogrc
Member
every where i drive in perth i see navaras and most other dual cabs/smaller utes puffing a bit of smoke when accelerating away from a stop
otherwise when cruising at speed they seem fine?
otherwise when cruising at speed they seem fine?
jay
Member
yer i find the same thing. mine only creates smoke when accelerating from a stop
tempestv8
Member
Back to the subject of adding two stroke oil into diesel fuel to lubricate injectors and pumps....
For those who are concerned that two stroke oil is not designed to go into a diesel engine but still wish to ensure that the injectors are kept lubricated despite the lowered lubricity of ultra low sulphur diesel, there is a product that is specifically designed for diesel engines.
Flashlube diesel conditioner
Flashlube Diesel Conditioner: Flashlube fuel additives Synthetic lubricants for the automotive industry
At a dosage of 100 ml of Flashlube for every 100 litres of diesel, this is definitely a lot cheaper than adding 500 ml of Castrol Activ 2T for every 100 litres of diesel
According to the product datasheet, "Flashlube Diesel Conditioner is designed to protect Diesel engines, particularly for those who want to switch over to Low Sulphur Diesel (LSD), or Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) fuel."
This product seems to be designed specifically for diesel engines, unlike two stroke oil, which is designed for petrol powered engines.
And Flashlube have been in the industry for years and years so no one can refute their reputation for understanding fuel treatment and conditioners. After all, they were the folks who helped to save engines from valve recession issues due to loss of upper cylinder lubrication, albeit in petrol engines.
(No affiliation, only genuine interest in helping those wishing to keep their vehicles troublefree for a long long time)
For those who are concerned that two stroke oil is not designed to go into a diesel engine but still wish to ensure that the injectors are kept lubricated despite the lowered lubricity of ultra low sulphur diesel, there is a product that is specifically designed for diesel engines.
Flashlube diesel conditioner
Flashlube Diesel Conditioner: Flashlube fuel additives Synthetic lubricants for the automotive industry
At a dosage of 100 ml of Flashlube for every 100 litres of diesel, this is definitely a lot cheaper than adding 500 ml of Castrol Activ 2T for every 100 litres of diesel
According to the product datasheet, "Flashlube Diesel Conditioner is designed to protect Diesel engines, particularly for those who want to switch over to Low Sulphur Diesel (LSD), or Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) fuel."
This product seems to be designed specifically for diesel engines, unlike two stroke oil, which is designed for petrol powered engines.
And Flashlube have been in the industry for years and years so no one can refute their reputation for understanding fuel treatment and conditioners. After all, they were the folks who helped to save engines from valve recession issues due to loss of upper cylinder lubrication, albeit in petrol engines.
(No affiliation, only genuine interest in helping those wishing to keep their vehicles troublefree for a long long time)
What is this I don't even
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Flashlube is similar to Chemtech Diesel Power additive.
I'm currently trialling my first tank of Chemtech. Engine is still smooth, not noticing any difference in response over untreated fuel, I think the proof will be in the economy figures, so we'll have to wait.
I'm currently trialling my first tank of Chemtech. Engine is still smooth, not noticing any difference in response over untreated fuel, I think the proof will be in the economy figures, so we'll have to wait.
tony
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just wanna add some info as a 2 stroke oil user, i've been using it for a year now and got used to having a quiet motor in the morning starts ,on a hunting trip i had to fill up couple of times and run out of oil so i just run normal diesel from a servo i've used before and let me tell you i thought something went in the motor i'm not a mechanic but the noise increase was quite a lot,on the next fill up put the oil back in back to quiet i don't know the tech bits about it but my hearing doesn't lie we talking metallic noises 
Finally got around to reading this thread, 23 pages is a lot for a person with a short attention span.
Is there any chance the 2-stroke oil in the diesel is doing exactly what its is designed to do in a petrol motor by providing upper cylinder lubrication.
I found a significant drop in cold start up noise after changing my crankcase oil from a semi syn 10w40 to a full syn 0w40. Engine also operates alot smoother when cold, not like a "tight engine"
If the 2-stroke was doing anything to the fuel but lubing surely there would be a change in EGT, Power and econonmy.
Is there any chance the 2-stroke oil in the diesel is doing exactly what its is designed to do in a petrol motor by providing upper cylinder lubrication.
I found a significant drop in cold start up noise after changing my crankcase oil from a semi syn 10w40 to a full syn 0w40. Engine also operates alot smoother when cold, not like a "tight engine"
If the 2-stroke was doing anything to the fuel but lubing surely there would be a change in EGT, Power and econonmy.
K
KraftyPg
Guest
How do you think we feel, we wrote all 23 pages and the can of worms still isn't entirely empty.
To answer your question from MY experience (and I'll refer to my fuel data sheet for this), there is a mild improvement while using 300ml of 2-stroke to a fill of 70L or more. You don't feel the extra power, but it must be there, because there's an approximate one litre per hundred kilometre improvement in economy. Injectors are quieter (they should not be affected by engine lubrication).
1LPHK equates to about 6 litres over an average tank (600km, roughly 13LPHK average consumption). That's (at current 135.9 pricing in Newcastle) a saving of $8.15 and 300ml of JASO-FC oil (not Valvoline, Castrol - $13 per litre, $40 for 4 litres) costs $3.90, so you're saving about $4 a tank.
1LPHK equates to about 6 litres over an average tank (600km, roughly 13LPHK average consumption). That's (at current 135.9 pricing in Newcastle) a saving of $8.15 and 300ml of JASO-FC oil (not Valvoline, Castrol - $13 per litre, $40 for 4 litres) costs $3.90, so you're saving about $4 a tank.
tony
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I have been adding 2lts of auto transmission into a 150 litre fuel tank {Castrol tq d111 Automatic fluid}to my 2007Narvara D40 auto dpf every time i fill up with diesel since new the cars now done 54000klms and runs like a clock, never had one problem with it runs great,uselly fill around the 120/130litre mark.
i wouldn't use ATF because of the friction modifiers it contains ie its less splipery.
The thing I'd be concerned about using anything that was not designed to be combusted (2-stroke is supposed to go into a combustion chamber) is the particles that are generated through the combustion process. Additives designed for any part that have not been tested in a combustion cycle may leave particles in places - for example, on the lip of the injectors, or down the sides of the pistons.
This could lead to problems like injector blockage, gummed/sticking piston rings, uneven wear on the cylinder walls.
A vehicle fitted with a DPF would have significant problems over time, and the CAT could also block up.
Then there's what the combustion-hardened particles are going to do in the engine oil as a result of the blow-by, which as we know is substantial in a diesel engine. These are going to get into the bearing surfaces and wear them down, they're going to get caught in crevices in the oil galleys and that spells disaster.
If you're confident the oil you're using isn't causing any of this - even in small amounts, over time the problem is still the same - then you're lucky. I think that generally, ATF or any non-combustion-designed products - are dangerous in the longer term.
In general I would suggest sticking to oils that have been designed to go into the fuel, but if you're happy with the way it's working for you, that's great.
This could lead to problems like injector blockage, gummed/sticking piston rings, uneven wear on the cylinder walls.
A vehicle fitted with a DPF would have significant problems over time, and the CAT could also block up.
Then there's what the combustion-hardened particles are going to do in the engine oil as a result of the blow-by, which as we know is substantial in a diesel engine. These are going to get into the bearing surfaces and wear them down, they're going to get caught in crevices in the oil galleys and that spells disaster.
If you're confident the oil you're using isn't causing any of this - even in small amounts, over time the problem is still the same - then you're lucky. I think that generally, ATF or any non-combustion-designed products - are dangerous in the longer term.
In general I would suggest sticking to oils that have been designed to go into the fuel, but if you're happy with the way it's working for you, that's great.
Thanks for the adviceTony.
Being involed in road transport all my working life and a owner/driver for the last 35 years and a big user of diesel i have seen the changes in diesel over the last 12/14 years as new engines have come on board starting with euro1 through to euro 5 and the oil companys doing there part in making various changes to there diesel products to suit these new types of engines and not allways good ones,and if in time things what Tony suggests might go wrong or happen to my narvara so be it we will no it dont work lol.Not being one to worry i gave that up years ago, so i will just keep doing what iv been doing since 2007 and see what happens.Worst case if things went pear shaped might have to drop one of those small cummins engines in there,now were talking.
I must say though i do like my narvara and enjoy driving it which alot of people dont understand after a week behind the wheel of trucks you'd think id wont a rest but i enjoy driving it.
Being involed in road transport all my working life and a owner/driver for the last 35 years and a big user of diesel i have seen the changes in diesel over the last 12/14 years as new engines have come on board starting with euro1 through to euro 5 and the oil companys doing there part in making various changes to there diesel products to suit these new types of engines and not allways good ones,and if in time things what Tony suggests might go wrong or happen to my narvara so be it we will no it dont work lol.Not being one to worry i gave that up years ago, so i will just keep doing what iv been doing since 2007 and see what happens.Worst case if things went pear shaped might have to drop one of those small cummins engines in there,now were talking.
I must say though i do like my narvara and enjoy driving it which alot of people dont understand after a week behind the wheel of trucks you'd think id wont a rest but i enjoy driving it.
K
Krankin
Guest
Bit of info I read somewhere else....
Quote:
"I think I'd save your money on that one. However I would be interested in reading the scientific papers if you can post a link to them here but it doesn't sound right to me but I am alwasy willing to learn.
Just so you know where I am coming from I am a technical manager and engineer for a major oil company so I can probably provide some pretty accurate advice on the subject of oils and fuels as it is my job.
Whilst my I'm sure the oil industry would like you to all buy our 2 stroke oils and add to your fuel it will not help from what I can see.
Low sulfur diesel fuel is formulated with anti wear additives where needed. Each batch of diesel is tested to ensure it passes the minimum wear test requirement to ensure fuel pumps are protected.
Adding any oil will likely result in more soot as oil doesn't burn as well as diesel as it is a longer chain molecule that diesel fuel. Additionally most 2 stroke oils contain bright stock base oils to provide antiscuff protection to the pistons. However particulalry bright stock and additives in 2 stroke oil this will result in increased engine deposits in the engine. However a TCS III will give less deposits than most. Other than dirt getting into engines, engine deposits in the top land of the piston and behind the piston ring is what most commonly results in a worn out engine. Additionally the additives in the 2 Stroke oil are likely to be detrimental to a DPF plus the base oil will send the Sulphur level way over spec which is also detrimental to a DPF.
Manuafactures are getting tougher on warrantee as the newer technologies often rely more heavily on everything being as tested and if they see an unusual failure they will test oils and fuels for additives and to ensure the correct grade has been used as well as download stored data to see if the engine has been chipped.
The best thing you can put in your fuel is a Diesel fuel detergent additive (Standard diesel doesn't contain such additives) to keep your injectors clean as it really does work. Also a Cetane booster as it really does work as improves cold running and power and fuel economy. The Aust Standard allows a fairly low Cetane which many oil companies regualrly exceed by a margin (thats why you can feel a difference between certain brands). However the price of most will probably mean you migh not want to use them all the time (you need to work out if it is worth it). However if they have never been used in your vehicle before they can free up all the gunk that builds up over time so be prepared for a possible fuel filter change should this be the case as it can happen on occasions."
.
Quote:
"I think I'd save your money on that one. However I would be interested in reading the scientific papers if you can post a link to them here but it doesn't sound right to me but I am alwasy willing to learn.
Just so you know where I am coming from I am a technical manager and engineer for a major oil company so I can probably provide some pretty accurate advice on the subject of oils and fuels as it is my job.
Whilst my I'm sure the oil industry would like you to all buy our 2 stroke oils and add to your fuel it will not help from what I can see.
Low sulfur diesel fuel is formulated with anti wear additives where needed. Each batch of diesel is tested to ensure it passes the minimum wear test requirement to ensure fuel pumps are protected.
Adding any oil will likely result in more soot as oil doesn't burn as well as diesel as it is a longer chain molecule that diesel fuel. Additionally most 2 stroke oils contain bright stock base oils to provide antiscuff protection to the pistons. However particulalry bright stock and additives in 2 stroke oil this will result in increased engine deposits in the engine. However a TCS III will give less deposits than most. Other than dirt getting into engines, engine deposits in the top land of the piston and behind the piston ring is what most commonly results in a worn out engine. Additionally the additives in the 2 Stroke oil are likely to be detrimental to a DPF plus the base oil will send the Sulphur level way over spec which is also detrimental to a DPF.
Manuafactures are getting tougher on warrantee as the newer technologies often rely more heavily on everything being as tested and if they see an unusual failure they will test oils and fuels for additives and to ensure the correct grade has been used as well as download stored data to see if the engine has been chipped.
The best thing you can put in your fuel is a Diesel fuel detergent additive (Standard diesel doesn't contain such additives) to keep your injectors clean as it really does work. Also a Cetane booster as it really does work as improves cold running and power and fuel economy. The Aust Standard allows a fairly low Cetane which many oil companies regualrly exceed by a margin (thats why you can feel a difference between certain brands). However the price of most will probably mean you migh not want to use them all the time (you need to work out if it is worth it). However if they have never been used in your vehicle before they can free up all the gunk that builds up over time so be prepared for a possible fuel filter change should this be the case as it can happen on occasions."
.
the counter argument to that is that while fuel may pass minimum wear test at factory by the time you get it and its contaminated it may no longer do so. the old sulfur fuel had more than enough anti wear so contamination didn't drop the lube level past minimum.
they got away with contamination quite easly but now the fuel no longer has the head room to allow that.
2 stroke resulting in more soot? interesting as theres people who have pulled heads and injectors out and they are far cleaner than normal. i think hes forgetting that 2 stroke is also full off detergents to clean out soot.
DPF's is an interesting one, there seams to be enough people running 2 stroke in DPF equipped vehicles without them blocking up, in fact they seam to be have less regen cycles. however i would say it still early days on that one.
they got away with contamination quite easly but now the fuel no longer has the head room to allow that.
2 stroke resulting in more soot? interesting as theres people who have pulled heads and injectors out and they are far cleaner than normal. i think hes forgetting that 2 stroke is also full off detergents to clean out soot.
DPF's is an interesting one, there seams to be enough people running 2 stroke in DPF equipped vehicles without them blocking up, in fact they seam to be have less regen cycles. however i would say it still early days on that one.
