Turbo mesh

[Krankin]

To make the screen really effective, you'd need to put it in a large container, large enough so that there were enough holes in the screen to more than make up for the cross-sectional area of the tube that didn't have any screen in it. This wouldn't get rid of the turbulence and the flow reduction close to the surface of the mesh (think in terms of laminar flow) but it would negate MOST of the restriction.

I guess it'd have to be a bit like a bucket with the screen in the middle, and the air pipe entering the lid and exiting through the bottom - and even then it's going to have similar issues to the IC, because there's nowhere near the engine that you could fit a bucket.

personally i wouldnt go that way at all,
I'd fit some S/S screen 2-3mm open spacing with i think its about 0.2 wire and over the ally inlet and the hose back on till I could get an IC,
tho again were talking about stopping broken turbo bits grenading your engine not comparing the performance gains 'tween mesh and an IC.

 

[Old.Tony]

personally i wouldnt go that way at all,
I'd fit some S/S screen 2-3mm open spacing with i think its about 0.2 wire and over the ally inlet and the hose back on till I could get an IC,
tho again were talking about stopping broken turbo bits grenading your engine not comparing the performance gains 'tween mesh and an IC.

True, and to be realistic about it, just whacking some s/s mesh in there temporarily until the IC arrives is not a bad bit of insurance.

 

[joshman]

Silly question maybe, but couldn't this work out worse? Could the exploding compressor wheel rip through the mesh and also cause a bunch of super fine metal bits to go hurtling towards the all important bits and pieces? While it may slow down the larger chunks from making their way forth, you'd still be left with a bunch of really fine metal bits floating around?

Just a hypothetical thought?

 

[Old.Tony]

The compressor wheel is a light alloy (has to be - reduced momentum = faster spooling). The chunks would easily be stopped by a decent grade stainless steel mesh. Take a look at a Crimsafe ad on TV next time - same stuff.

 

[Krankin]

Silly question maybe, but couldn't this work out worse? Could the exploding compressor wheel rip through the mesh and also cause a bunch of super fine metal bits to go hurtling towards the all important bits and pieces? While it may slow down the larger chunks from making their way forth, you'd still be left with a bunch of really fine metal bits floating around?

Just a hypothetical thought?

if the bits are as small as you say, they could easily pass through the IC tubes as well, they are not tiny tubes by any means.

 

[Krankin]

True, and to be realistic about it, just whacking some s/s mesh in there temporarily until the IC arrives is not a bad bit of insurance.

and thats all I'm trying to convey

 

[tweak'e]

personally i wouldnt go that way at all,
I'd fit some S/S screen 2-3mm open spacing with i think its about 0.2 wire and over the ally inlet and the hose back on till I could get an IC,
tho again were talking about stopping broken turbo bits grenading your engine not comparing the performance gains 'tween mesh and an IC.

now that would cause a lot of restriction to flow. not only does the mesh block flow, the turbulence blocks even more flow.
to get around that you need to make it a lot bigger, ie like an IC.

do you go to the expense of making a box with mesh in it or fit an IC ?

also 0.2 wire would not stand a chance in the intake. the high air speed and high temps would destroy it fairly quickly. it wouldn't have a hope in hell of stopping bits of a compressor wheel.

 

[Old.Tony]

I dunno Tweak'e, if it was a decent grade of stainless (eg 304) it might just survive. I'm not sure I'd look at 0.2mm wires in the mesh, I'd go for something closer to 1mm. It would be highly restrictive but if I was panicking about a turbo coming apart it's the better of two evils.

Then again, if I was fairly sure that my turbocharger was about to detonate, I'd turn the bloody thing off and wait for it to be fixed (both turbo and IC installed) - but that's me!

If you are FORCED to drive because there's no alternative and the IC is a ways off, the use of mesh to at least protect the expensive engine is a good idea I think, as long as the mesh is strong enough.

It has to withstand 200C without sagging and still take an impact from a chunk of metal. Admittedly the compressor wheel isn't heavy - I just weighed one from a small petrol engine (slightly smaller unit than on our diesels) and the entire wheel was 27grams.

 

[tweak'e]

0.2mm stainless you can cut with scissors i use the stuff at work.
compressor bits may not be heavy but airflow is doing something like 100-200km/h, i would have to work it out exactly but its generally very fast.

the simple problem is that the restriction from the mesh can cause the turbo to fail, so its not really saving you anything.

 

[jace3.0td]

is there a better than stock turbo that bolts up no messin? aswell as the warm up and cool down procedures we should be doing with any turbo engine anyway!

 

[tweak'e]

there is one that bolts up to the manifold that a company has put out, but it requires different intake and dump pipe. i think dave got one in.

quick thought.....if your goign to change turbo why not make a decent manifold and get rid of that horrid log manifold. someone mentioned a twin scroll turbo that might be about the right size......

 

[Krankin]

also 0.2 wire would not stand a chance in the intake. the high air speed and high temps would destroy it fairly quickly.

I really dont think so..

are those high temps in the order of 1000 and above Deg C????

and then how does the rubber tubes connecting everything stand up to these enormous temps???

 

[Krankin]

0.2mm stainless you can cut with scissors so its

not the stuff i got...scissors..no way, you must have that crap soft NZ s/s.

 

[DieselTuner2]

...

 

[Krankin]

So are you saying that extra lengths in piping, extra bends and the IC provide no restriction to the airflow?
and flywire screen has minute holes which would almost stop flow,tho no one mentioned using flywire

 

[Navvic]

I'm in the throes of getting an IC for protection so I've enjoyed this thread.

I'm not a technically minded person so I see two different things here, turbulence and restricted airflow. Turbulence, well with 2 teenage boys, I'm used to that and not too worried about the engine either.

Restricted airflow well that bothers me.

I look at the two this way and correct me if I'm wrong but mesh small enough to catch bits would be making the turbo to push all that air through a restricted path.

Same air mass (is that the right term ?) through a significantly reduced path as the mesh wire itself reduces the actual path. Doesn't sound like much but grab some, cut the size you would be putting in the pipe, strip out all the wires and lay them side by side and see how much the pipe is reduced by (almost like putting on a smaller pipe).

Doing this tells me I'm going to be putting the turbo under a greater load and increasing the chances of it going.

It's like putting the evap cooler on high and closing all the windows, listen to it work harder once you restrict the exits.

Also I'm not sure about how the turbo would handle same pressure turning it and the resistance it's experiencing trying to push the same amount of air through a pipe not capable of handling it as well (mesh). I'm sure it would but increased load, high temps, high speed... dunno. Anyone know anyone at Boeing ?

IC, turbo has to push all that air "over a longer distance" sure, there's less restriction as the piping and IC are both designed to take that amount of air with minimal restriction (& resistance). Enough effort to cause the turbo to work harder, I would think minimal (Northside might have a better idea on that).

Here's a thought, why not make a "catch can" for the turbo ? Run piping to a "collection unit" and back thereby keeping the restriction to a minimum, increasing turbulence and come to think of it increasing engine bay temps but would have to be better than mesh (not as cheap though)

Mesh better than IC ? No.
Mesh better than Navics catch can ? No
Mesh better than nothing ? Yes (for me at this time, no.)

 

[tweak'e]

not the stuff i got...scissors..no way, you must have that crap soft NZ s/s.

you guys are just weak

turbulence and restricted airflow. Turbulence, well with 2 teenage boys, I'm used to that and not too worried about the engine either.

Restricted airflow well that bothers me.

I look at the two this way and correct me if I'm wrong but mesh small enough to catch bits would be making the turbo to push all that air through a restricted path.

you have most of it right.
just to add.....turbulence on its own can decrease flow. so you have the reduced flow by the wire reducing the area for the air to flow through and also the air being turbulent slows down the flow.

i know someone who did a test on fan grills (using a flow meter) and a basic grill (little turbulence) reduce flow directly proportional to how much area the grill blocked.

 

[joshman]

could you fabricate up some kind of sump for the air intake?so that if the turbo does let go, it throw all the chunky bits straight up into the sump first? lemme try and draw you a pretty picture!

nope pretty picture isn't happening.

so off the top of pipe from the turbo, to it's directly in line with there the turbo is going to be throwing chunks of metal, you have a "catcher's mitt." essentially you cut a chunk out of the top of the pipe, and weld a "cup" onto it. kinda like a lower case 'r'

don't know how effective that going to be, or what extra kind of stress thats gonna place on your turbo or how the extra turbulence is going to affect your air-flow.

my other idea would be some kind of "cyclonic" filter tube after the turbo

 

[jace3.0td]

big magnet strapped to outside of turbo piping lol

 

[Krankin]

Here's a thought, why not make a "catch can" for the turbo ? Run piping to a "collection unit" and back thereby keeping the restriction to a minimum, increasing turbulence and come to think of it increasing engine bay temps but would have to be better than mesh (not as cheap though)

No, I dont think so,

and also that above goes against your , well, thoughts in your first few sentences.