[SOLVED] Yet another power loss and black smoke question (updated)

[OldManBeard]

i suspect its something else. some garages are known to dump oil, trans fluid, missed fuel petrol etc into gas station diesel tanks.

The problem in trying to find someone or something to blame is the length of the supply chain. If our local servo (we only have one) did anything like that there's no way all the locals would still be filling up there regularly. As we're up in the hills, most people around here drive a 4WD of some kind, so diesel turnover is high for the servo. The contaminant could have been in the tanker, which is unlikely due to the high turnover, in the depot tank (more likely) or at the refinery. Sometimes they don't cycle storage tanks as often as they should, which could give algae, or other bacteria, time to grow. We'll never know.

 

[Old.Tony]

i suspect its something else. some garages are known to dump oil, trans fluid, missed fuel petrol etc into gas station diesel tanks.

It's issues like this that make you concerned!

So the general best practice - if your engine gives up the ghost and leaves you stranded - is to get the fuel from the tank, have it tested and keep the fuel receipts too, so that you can go back to the outlet and get compensated!

 

[OldManBeard]

It's issues like this that make you concerned!

So the general best practice - if your engine gives up the ghost and leaves you stranded - is to get the fuel from the tank, have it tested and keep the fuel receipts too, so that you can go back to the outlet and get compensated!

Tony, have you ever heard of anyone managing to get any sort of compensation for bad fuel? I've only tried it once but abandoned the case when my solicitor explained how hard it is for me to prove and how easy it is for the servo to show they may not be the ones responsible.

 

[Old.Tony]

Tony, have you ever heard of anyone managing to get any sort of compensation for bad fuel? I've only tried it once but abandoned the case when my solicitor explained how hard it is for me to prove and how easy it is for the servo to show they may not be the ones responsible.

There have been discussions among the members here in the past who have had fuel issues and taken their receipts back to the service station, if I recall there were a couple of successes. The chance of success diminishes with lack of proof.

 

[tweak'e]

Tony, have you ever heard of anyone managing to get any sort of compensation for bad fuel? I've only tried it once but abandoned the case when my solicitor explained how hard it is for me to prove and how easy it is for the servo to show they may not be the ones responsible.

there was one on here who got an entire tank of water and conked out a few hundred meters from the servo. repair covered by insurance. no doubt insurance company claimed it back off fuel company. but they do that all the time where as a single person would just get the run around.

also contaminated fuel is often more about long term wear and there is no way of proving which gas station station was responsible.
eg the crap could have been in the tank for for years.

 

[OldManBeard]

there was one on here who got an entire tank of water and conked out a few hundred meters from the servo. repair covered by insurance. no doubt insurance company claimed it back off fuel company. but they do that all the time where as a single person would just get the run around.

also contaminated fuel is often more about long term wear and there is no way of proving which gas station station was responsible.
eg the crap could have been in the tank for for years.

I reckon the water one would have been easy enough to prove but if it's contaminated fuel or similar, it's close to impossible to prove it's a particular servo's fault. Even if you manage that part, they can shift the blame up the supply chain and each step makes it that much harder again to nail the buggers. Sure, you've got some chance if the servo is owned by the fuel company, who are responsible for the whole supply chain, but none at all for independents, like our local servo.

The case I referred to was back in the early days of unleaded petrol when I got a tank full of unleaded from a regular petrol bowser. It killed the engine in my old Valiant workhorse, due to the much lower octane rating and lack of lead. Trying to prove it was their fault was even harder in this instance, as within a month that servo had shut down and the tanks had been emptied of fuel and filled with water to stop them floating. I've often wondered whether they lifted them out later or just caved in the tops and filled them with soil.

 

[OldManBeard]

Just one final update on this; after delays due to weather and having misplaced the keys for the camper's wheel clamp, I just came back from a road test of the Navara with the camper in tow. There were no power problems at all. My wife and I will now resume our plans for an extended lap of the big island. Thanks again to all who offered ideas and suggestions.

 

[user 10312]

Great news mate. Have a great trip. Don't forget to add a trip report now and again.

 

[OldManBeard]

And yet another update to this saga I thought was dead and buried.

I was on the road a week or so ago and experienced a rather sudden and very drastic loss of power, even more so than the previous time. So much so that I decided to head straight back home. Jumping to conclusions (which is often the mother of all stuff-ups) I figured the most likely culprit was another fuel blockage. Although eventually being a valid guess, I really should have used my brains are connected the scan tool first, as it might have pointed to something else altogether.

Anyway, despite having previously given the fuel a "shock" dose of anti-bacterial additive, I emptied and removed the tank for close inspection, fully expecting to see another build up of bacterial growth ("algae"). I was pleasantly surprised to see no sign of it. I next tied a white cloth around the tank end of the fuel line, disconnected the filter end and blasted it with air. The cloth showed no contaminants blown out, so the line was clear. I reinstalled the tank and, while giving my back a chance to recover a bit, changed the fuel filter.

With the new filter in place the car was back to normal, so after the test drive I cut open the old filter and pulled out the element. It was completely covered with what looked like the remains of the bacterial growth, which had been killed by the treatment. It was so bad that when I tried to pass diesel through just a single layer of the element it barely got through at all.

Lessons learned: After using such an additive for treating diesel bacterial growth replace the filter soon afterwards. I'll also be changing out the current one within the next 1,000km as well, so to be sure it's all gone.

Although it turned out that emptying and removing the tank proved unnecessary, I do have the peace of mind provided by knowing I appear to have solved the problem of what I had at one point thought of simply as "black sludge".

 

[Connaught]

And yet another update to this saga I thought was dead and buried.

I was on the road a week or so ago and experienced a rather sudden and very drastic loss of power, even more so than the previous time. So much so that I decided to head straight back home. Jumping to conclusions (which is often the mother of all stuff-ups) I figured the most likely culprit was another fuel blockage. Although eventually being a valid guess, I really should have used my brains are connected the scan tool first, as it might have pointed to something else altogether.

Anyway, despite having previously given the fuel a "shock" dose of anti-bacterial additive, I emptied and removed the tank for close inspection, fully expecting to see another build up of bacterial growth ("algae"). I was pleasantly surprised to see no sign of it. I next tied a white cloth around the tank end of the fuel line, disconnected the filter end and blasted it with air. The cloth showed no contaminants blown out, so the line was clear. I reinstalled the tank and, while giving my back a chance to recover a bit, changed the fuel filter.

With the new filter in place the car was back to normal, so after the test drive I cut open the old filter and pulled out the element. It was completely covered with what looked like the remains of the bacterial growth, which had been killed by the treatment. It was so bad that when I tried to pass diesel through just a single layer of the element it barely got through at all.

Lessons learned: After using such an additive for treating diesel bacterial growth replace the filter soon afterwards. I'll also be changing out the current one within the next 1,000km as well, so to be sure it's all gone.

Although it turned out that emptying and removing the tank proved unnecessary, I do have the peace of mind provided by knowing I appear to have solved the problem of what I had at one point thought of simply as "black sludge".

Hehe yep, the growth needs to go somewhere, you must have had a bad growth problem for it to completely block the filter

We use an antibacterial treatment in our aircraft at work, if we use the ' shock treatment' we HAVE to change filters in so many flight hours,

 

[OldManBeard]

Hehe yep, the growth needs to go somewhere, you must have had a bad growth problem for it to completely block the filter

We use an antibacterial treatment in our aircraft at work, if we use the ' shock treatment' we HAVE to change filters in so many flight hours,

It was bad alright. I understand that the growth has to go somewhere but I was led to believe by the packaging that the treatment would kill and dissolve the growth, which I interpreted as meaning it would pass through and be burnt in the engine. It all makes sense now of course but, this being my first diesel, I've been on a bit of a steep learning curve, especially with the number of problems I've already had with the Navara.

 

[Connaught]

It was bad alright. I understand that the growth has to go somewhere but I was led to believe by the packaging that the treatment would kill and dissolve the growth, which I interpreted as meaning it would pass through and be burnt in the engine. It all makes sense now of course but, this being my first diesel, I've been on a bit of a steep learning curve, especially with the number of problems I've already had with the Navara.

I just got mine back on the road after it snapped a crank 2 years ago, and i love it, i put it back together because i could sell it for a bunch of money, ( had just done injectors and the front end, shicks, racj ends ball joints etc) and try to get some back, but i dont want to sell it hahah i confess i am emotionally attached to it, we did the Gibb river road in it, have taken it pretty much every where u can in WA

It drives like a new car, it has fewer mod cons than my triton, ( stereo is buggered cause i dropped a flywheel on it so no reverse camera or android auto, no cruise control, its manual, no steering wheel controls....),

but i prefer driving my nav, little things, i prefer the drivers position, the second hand stx seats are a dream, the jets for the window washer are still the best i have ever seen, the cupholder has that extra compartment, and theres a lip around it that prevents stuff rolling around, the back seat fold up and provide a flat floor that you can fit a massive amount of stuff into( the tritons back floor isnt flat,....... so annoying) the headlights and highbeams are great......


But i digress, i hope you enjoy yours as much as i do mine, I really think they are a great ute,

 

[Shaneo01]

A couple of things that caused power loss and extra smoke for me have been vacuum hose and the fuel primer bulb perishing allowing air to leak into the system.

The primer bulb leak symptom was a really bad flat spot on acceleration, and needing priming every morning.

Vacuum hose leaks were lack of turbo boost, but that was apparent on the boost gauge. Only getting 10psi boost max, but returned to 18-20psi once repaired.

Primer bulb for sore mine just had me stumped for weeks pulling **** of.and no like a mad man 2012 spain built one way valve I seen the exact same thing on my thinkscan 5

 

[noakesy]

Turn off the air con , had mine since new , 2008 model , has this same problem , essp when towing boat. Wouldnt even pull the skim of a custard. Done this about 5 times , and especially on boat ramps , with air con on. Switching it off , giving a rev or two will fix , think it just lacks some power when engine isnt warm , and sitting on steep incline. After afew seconds of revs catching up , works fine. 180 thousand since new , never let me down yet , but say it something to do with fuel intake or cant get enough fuel through for extra power when air con is draining power from tank , and think there is slight delay from engine throttle to fuel pumping . Or maybe on a steep angle the fuel pump , has to work harder to get fuel through maybe .