Pollen filter and canopy/tub sealing - D40

[Jason]

I don't think foam on it's own will be enough to keep the particles out. Dunk it in oil and squeeze the excess out.....the smell?.........Well you'd just have to get used to it

Here at work we have about 600 separate filters on 30 odd different Air Handlers. All of the different filter mediums they use have some 'type' of coating on the medium to assist in trapping particles, the most common being silicone, this also means they are not re-usable/washable. The other main type of filter medium we use is a paper filament, certainly not re-usable.

I'm sure the foam would block something out, but not enough. Maybe some pollen (about 25 microns for allergy size) definately not HEPA standard (0.3 microns). Maybe put some sand on it and give it a shake, see if any falls through? Sand tends to start at 100 microns up to 1000. Dust tends to be below 30 microns.

 

[KraftyPg]

In actual fact if you were using motherboard foam as I suggested would be my first test you'd need several layers of it otherwise it wouldn't fit in the hole and it would move as the fan went around. Sure it's still not washable but several layers is going to make it harder for anything to get through just like using two pieces of tissue paper provides more resistance than one several layers of foam would do the same thing. It still may not work but the tests have to start somewhere.

The other stuff I have in mind is actually more robust than even the paper filters will be, it's not as plentiful and still not washable but it is still free and it's got a similar plastic type coating on it too the paper filters. Nothing is ever going to be perfect and lets face it there is no guarantee even the genuine ones are the best they could be but as long as the air flow isn't impeded and there is some filtration it's going to work to some degree. Whether that degree is better or worse than provided by Nissan one would never know, even putting my car next to Tony's wouldn't ever be an idle test so it comes down to user preference really.

Given that there is probably more than half the owners of Nav's out there who don't know about these things I can't see my idea will be any worse off than those.

 

[Old.Tony]

... and, since something is always better than nothing ...

 

[KraftyPg]

... and, since something is always better than nothing ...

...we'll stick and old shoe in there. Now thats an entirely different smell and one you may not get used too.

Oh and even better idea for someone you don't like. Fill it full of used odour eaters, they are good enough too keep the smell in shoes they'd have to have some filtering properties. It's all in the way you sell it some people will believe anything if you can give it the right pitch

 

[Jason]

Yeah I know the foam you are talking about, it doesn't matter how many layers you put together if it's dry, a particle smaller than the orifice will find it's way through.

Like I said, it will stop some things but I doubt it will stop pollens/allergens, and outback/bull dust is pretty fine as well.

Good luck with it, I hate paying Nissan prices too.

I wonder why Nissan put them in AFTER the 20k service? That was said earlier I think?

 

[KraftyPg]

Yeah I know the foam you are talking about, it doesn't matter how many layers you put together if it's dry, a particle smaller than the orifice will find it's way through.

Like I said, it will stop some things but I doubt it will stop pollens/allergens, and outback/bull dust is pretty fine as well.

Good luck with it, I hate paying Nissan prices too.

I wonder why Nissan put them in AFTER the 20k service? That was said earlier I think?

Thats why I'm now thinking the shiny more rigid stuff will be better, but until the test results come back (we have to do them first) I wont know for sure. It's not as easy to get but even if it only lasts me 10K I'm still not going to run out between orders this crap arrives in. In the word of Mythbuster "motherboard foam was the control"

I don't think anyone could answer why they don't go in until 20K, there seems to be no logical reason. It's almost reasonable if they said 1K given that your not suppose to thrash a new car for the first 1000 but for some people 20K can be two years, if they have lasted 2 years without it it's not like it will make much difference to them when they finally get it, chances are they wont even know it was installed.

 

[Jason]

I'm thinking that some other condition may have to be met before they can be put in, can't for the life of me think what it could be though.

 

[KraftyPg]

Yeah I bet its one of those things if you asked three dealers you'd get three different answers too.

 

[Old.Tony]

My dealer told me that if the production line (in Spain) doesn't have them readily at hand, they don't include them, and since they're a replacement item at the 20K service, that's when Nissan first notice and install them.

It sounds completely feasible and given everything else that my dealer has told me, I have faith in that reason.

I don't know what the cost of the filter actually is. I do think that if you went and made one out of some good quality HEPA-rated paper, you'd have a filter that works extremely well and probably costs a whole lot less.

Then begs the question: can you tell Nissan not to bother replacing the filters, or is that step of their service mandatory?

 

[KraftyPg]

Then begs the question: can you tell Nissan not to bother replacing the filters, or is that step of their service mandatory?

You're relying on them actually doing it in the first place, while we know where it is many others don't and it could easily be one of those "Oh sorry the service droid must have overlooked it" situations if they didn't do it and it was found. You have to have a lot of faith in and service mob doing exactly what is listed in the book to trust them to do anything let alone the small things.

I only had 2 services of my Subaru done at my local dealer because at each service they ticked off things in the book that they'd done but clearly hadn't and it wasn't like it was hard things to find, things like greasing the door hinges and rotating the tyres. Any layman could see they hadn't done it but by doing a 2 second visual inspection yet they claimed point blank that it was done and thats why it was ticked off.

It's the way of the world these days, if corners can be cut they will be and despite the massive prices dealers charge they cut just as many of them where they can, it why I wont trust them anymore.

 

[KraftyPg]

Ok I know you are all waiting on the results with baited breath and it would be remiss of me not to post them. Actually you've probably all forgotten about it and no one but me cares but too bad I'll post my findings.

The motherboard foam preformed in an Iveco system nearly as well as the original in that it provided a bit more airflow with several layers. It definitely wont last as long as the OEM stuff but depending on the conditions you drive under should be satisfactory for some time.

The rigid gray stuff I found with what feels like a plastic coating can be cut to size and airflow is nearly exactly that of the OEM Iveco. It still may not last 20K which Nissan recommend is the change over of theirs but this stuff will last a lot long than the motherboard stuff and because of it's coating does withstand limited water and oil residue.

It may never be a perfect replacement and Nissan may frown upon it but considering there is usually nothing in the hole for the first 20K I figure I have 100% improvement.

 

[KraftyPg]

On the same note it has been written previous of vents blowing dust and sand and stuff into the cabin of the Nav because these filters haven't been fitted while I wont dispute that happening because I have seen similar things in older cars I do have to wonder just how much build up people are accumulating in their vents.

As the heatwave broke last week we had a wind storm move in from the south west with 80+ kmh winds which tore the crap out of the open cut mines, roads were blanketed and visibility was so low in some parts that you couldn't see from one side of the road to the other.

For those that don't know a dust storm from the open cut coal mine is kind of like an outback sand storm only the flavour is different, more like the charcoal flavour a bbq gives off. My Nav sat in the wind storm for about an hour before having to drive through the thick of it on my way home and because of the heat the a/c was blowing on 3 all the way home yet I got no dust and crunchy bits blasting out the vents at me.

While I can agree that 90 mins isn't equal to 20K of driving when the air is so thick you can only see about 10 feet in front of you the car has to be sucking atleast some of that in yet there was no traces of it on the day and there was very little trace of it when I had the glove box off this morning. Maybe it hides somewhere until I get closer to 20K? Anyway thats just my experience.

 

[Jason]

Cool, so just airflow tests, no test to see if particulate can get through?

Sprinkle flour/talc and see if any gets through?

 

[Jason]

Another question, are these filters in place prior to the air entering the cabin? By that I mean they are after the evaporator?

 

[KraftyPg]

Cool, so just airflow tests, no test to see if particulate can get through?

Sprinkle flour/talc and see if any gets through?

We didn't have anything fine enough, there is no way flour or talc will get through. I need something finer but other than reversing a vac and blowing the crap out of the bag we didn't have anything else fine enough. Next time they clean the workshop they are going to separate the silty crap from the chunks and we might have half a chance of blowing something at it that doesn't have the risk of taking our arms off when a chunk gets caught up in it. I've left them a sizable chunk to have a play with in their spare time

 

[KraftyPg]

Another question, are these filters in place prior to the air entering the cabin? By that I mean they are after the evaporator?

If you look at the first image tony posted on page one you can see the filters in location. They sit before the blower motor, so that they supposedly stop crap hitting the blower. The evaporator is after the blower. It all happens inside the cabin space but the filters are the second thing the incoming air hits.

 

[Jason]

OK, that's interesting. The filter is not just to provide filtered air to the cabin, it also filters air prior to hitting the evaporator. Most evaporators sweat when they remove moisture from the air so any dust/pollen will be caught on the damp evaporator and over time produce 'mud' and clog the evaporator. Obviously these become far less efficient when dirty and are a BIG pain to clean.

I suppose I'm saying that getting a bit of dust in the cabin in the first 20,000 k's may not be the worst thing about not having filters in. Makes me wonder if there is another set of 'pre-filters' somewhere because protection of the evaporator from dust is pretty basic common-sense AC stuff.

 

[KraftyPg]

Maybe Nissan have figured cleaning the air prior to the evaporator means less chance of having to clean the evaporator and considering the filter is a $5 part and the time spent changing is minimal it might be the lesser of two evils

Considering these things have the potential to suck nearly as much crap as the air cleaner I wonder why they don't have to be changed more often. There is always going to be some moisture in an A/C system and that could be from both inside and out depending on the conditions and combined with dust who knows how much crap could be produced.

I might be wrong but I don't remember reading anywhere in the manual that these filters are an inspect and change item, I'm sure it was only change every 20K. While under normal circumstances mine may not get a huge build up of crap in there over 20K who's to say the Nav's running around mines and quarries aren't a lot worse off and need the filters replaced every 5K however, if the book doesn't say inspect pollen filters at all intervals there is little chance a mechanic is ever going to inspect them and therefore could be sending them out fully clogged up.

Very little of these filters seems to make sense, it's like buying a car and having the dealer tell you that it comes with provision for a spare wheel but you can't have it until the car is 6 months old.

 

[Old.Tony]

You could buy one of those new Ford Fartmobiles and be told you're not getting a spare wheel, ever ... here's a screwdriver and a can of pressurised tyre sealer/inflater.

You can't drive those vehicles if you're a smoker - naked flames and all that. It'll go really fast just once.

I wonder if a rural Nissan dealership would handle things a little differently. They'd have to be aware that there's more dust out there. Would they change their own procedures from "replace every 20K" to a more intelligent "inspect + replace if necessary" ?

 

[KraftyPg]

You could buy one of those new Ford Fartmobiles

I think fart mobiles is a generic name for nearly every small car

I wonder if a rural Nissan dealership would handle things a little differently. They'd have to be aware that there's more dust out there. Would they change their own procedures from "replace every 20K" to a more intelligent "inspect + replace if necessary" ?

Mate I am rural (and getting p'd on from a great height Huey is sending it down in bucket loads right now) we have dust storms from the dry paddocks north, coal fed dust storms from the south west and beaches that you aren't suppose to drive on (atleast not when other can see you) and the guy spare parts guy from the dealer I brought the car off reckons he's never sold one despite the book saying his mechanics install them at 20K and the local dealer says they are just there because of government regs and can't order them because Nissan don't sell them to the general public.

This is part of the whole mystery there is a different story from every different source and there's no proof to any of them