If it's possible, what's involved?

[DVR]

Having seen the winch that ALDI are selling I was lamenting only having a factory STR alloy bar, but then I got to thinking "What's the difference between a winch bar and a non winch bar?" I figure the winch cant be mounted directly to an Ally bar cos Both the the bar and those concertina mounts wouldn't handle 9000lb pulling on them, they would twist like crap. So I figure they must mount to the chassis some other way and the cable only passes through the bar via the fairlead.

How do they mount?
Anyone ever look into converting a STR bar to fit a winch in behind it?????

Just so you know I'm a fitter by trade and I fabricate both in steel and aluminum for a living so If it's possible I'm sure I can do it. It's just I'm just a complete noob when it comes to winches and how they work on and around a bullbar.

 

[Dion]

Having seen the winch that ALDI are selling I was lamenting only having a factory STR alloy bar, but then I got to thinking "What's the difference between a winch bar and a non winch bar?" I figure the winch cant be mounted directly to an Ally bar cos Both the the bar and those concertina mounts wouldn't handle 9000lb pulling on them, they would twist like crap. So I figure they must mount to the chassis some other way and the cable only passes through the bar via the fairlead.

How do they mount?
Anyone ever look into converting a STR bar to fit a winch in behind it?????

Just so you know I'm a fitter by trade and I fabricate both in steel and aluminum for a living so If it's possible I'm sure I can do it. It's just I'm just a complete noob when it comes to winches and how they work on and around a bullbar.

Can be done. Two issues to consider: whether the alloy bar will handle the transverse loads of a sideways recovery. It's all well and good to say "I won't do one" but slippery mud, or desperation, or lending your truck to a mate can all result in a sideways recovery. The solution is to build the cradle so that there's a bracket to which the fairlead is bolted, sandwiching the alloy bar, so that the alloy bar isn't actually taking all of the load.

The other consideration is that usually the combination of a steel winch cradle and an alloy bar weighs more than a complete steel winch bar. So if you're chasing low weight, forget it. Why do you want to keep the alloy bar, if you're a fitter and you put some thought into it, you could have a great custom steel winch bar? Or maybe you like the look of the alloy?

Best of luck anyway, it can be done.

 

[Old.Tony]

When my wife pointed out the winch to me in the Aldi cattledog I thought "now that's cheap enough, 4300Kg is strong enough". We're still undecided, but thankfully have a steel bar so the fitting will be straight-forward. Is the gear good enough? I'd hope so, I've heard nothing bad about them and really, the other stuff we've gotten from Aldi has all been pretty good.

I'd agree with Pro-Nav - the alloy bar would need significant strengthening with steel. As a fitter you're obviously aware of the differences in tensile strength of the two metals, and you could build up a steel bar to suit, and colour match it, so it looked like your alloy but had the strength you needed for the winch.

Just back on that "do I need it" issue - while typing this, I was thinking to myself that no, I'll never put myself into a situation where I would need a winch, but then I remembered driving towards Lostock Dam on one of our many outings and finding some people by the side of the road, their car had run off the road and slid down an embankment. If I had a winch equipped, I could have hauled them back out. Having thought that, I am more seriously considering purchasing not only the winch, but a winch extension and tree protector - just in case, because you really never know what you'll come across.

 

[ants_oz]

DVR,

Everything "downstream" of the winch needs to be strong enough. So however the winch is mounted, everything needs to be able to handle the load in every direction. Not just forward, but up, down, left and right. If the cradle mounts to the bar, then the bar, the bar mounts, everything...

Regardless of your fabrication skills, it would be useful to engage someone with some engineering skills to talk about the kind of loads that could be involved - for example if you were to introduce a snatch block into a recovery situation it would be easy to double the forces involved.

Certainly not an impossible job by any stretch - a challenging one to be sure, but more so from the perspective of calculating the forces involved and ensuring they are adequately shared across any structure that you assemble.

Tony - I wasn't there of course, but most times you don't need a winch to pull someone out of a ditch or up an embankment - they are often more trouble than they are worth for recovering someone else because your vehicle isn't "anchored" as such. Yes, you can chock wheels etc, but it's sub-optimal...anyway... (for self-recovery winches are great though). What you DO need are several straps...enough length to reach the vehicle and slowly tow it out. Not a snatch - a slow tow.

 

[DVR]

Thanks Guys,
Damn.......... Dont you guys sleep?

Can be done. Two issues to consider: whether the alloy bar will handle the transverse loads of a sideways recovery. .....................
..................... The solution is to build the cradle so that there's a bracket to which the fairlead is bolted, sandwiching the alloy bar, so that the alloy bar isn't actually taking all of the load.

Yes, I fully appreciate all of this and agree totally. It's what I was alluding too when I said both the bar and the mounts would twist.

DVR,
Everything "downstream" of the winch needs to be strong enough. So however the winch is mounted, everything needs to be able to handle the load in every direction. Not just forward, but up, down, left and right. If the cradle mounts to the bar, then the bar, the bar mounts, everything...

Agreed, that's what I was thinking. It's the cradle itself - how its fabricated and fitted to the chassis and can it be squeezed behind the STR bar - that I would like some ideas with. Maybe even some pics???.

Regardless of your fabrication skills, it would be useful to engage someone with some engineering skills to talk about the kind of loads that could be involved - for example if you were to introduce a snatch block into a recovery situation it would be easy to double the forces involved.

Yeah, that's not a problem. My boss is the best mechanical engineer I've known an is always willing to help out with ideas and occasionally even willing to get dirty helping out with homers(after hours of course)
At this point I'm merely brainstorming with you guys, I'm not waiting at the front of the NAV with a 9". I'll leave that to JOSHY

 

[ants_oz]

In my humble opinion it's certainly possible. The bar should not be an issue as long as there is space behind it to mount the cradle and winch - with the "crush space" that those style of bars have, it should have plenty. But that opens another can of worms....they are pretty soft bars, prone to quite decent bending from any kind of impact.... Any decent hit from wildlife, and the winch and it's mounting assembly is vulnerable to impact. Another can of worms...

I guess it's one of those things isn't it....if the bar is for an airbag equipped vehicle, you can't legally modify the bar itself without affecting its compliance. So everything supporting the winch has to be physically separate.

Hope that makes sense mate, and hope it helps in your quest

 

[Jon]

One of these might be a good start.

Tigerz11.com.au

 

[DVR]

In my humble opinion it's certainly possible. The bar should not be an issue as long as there is space behind it to mount the cradle and winch - with the "crush space" that those style of bars have, it should have plenty. But that opens another can of worms....they are pretty soft bars, prone to quite decent bending from any kind of impact.... Any decent hit from wildlife, and the winch and it's mounting assembly is vulnerable to impact. Another can of worms...

I guess it's one of those things isn't it....if the bar is for an airbag equipped vehicle, you can't legally modify the bar itself without affecting its compliance. So everything supporting the winch has to be physically separate.

Hope that makes sense mate, and hope it helps in your quest

Yeah that all makes sense, cheers.

 

[DVR]

One of these might be a good start.

Tigerz11.com.au

Is that seriously all that mounts a winch to the front? A 6mm channel? Pfft... an hours work to make that!!! But how would they bolt this to on a NAV? It has the mount for the fairlead built in so all this could possibly just poke through the front of the bar with a bit of clearance and not actually mount on the bar at all.

 

[Old.Tony]

Tony - I wasn't there of course, but most times you don't need a winch to pull someone out of a ditch or up an embankment - they are often more trouble than they are worth for recovering someone else because your vehicle isn't "anchored" as such. Yes, you can chock wheels etc, but it's sub-optimal...anyway... (for self-recovery winches are great though). What you DO need are several straps...enough length to reach the vehicle and slowly tow it out. Not a snatch - a slow tow.

I had thought about that as well, and I'll probably get myself a decent tow rope (not a snatch rope) and some nice strong shackles to start with. In this particular situation, they'd done a fairly sharp turn off and down a fairly gentle embankment.

A tow out would have dragged the car for quite some distance through the mud and grass and a winch would have pulled them the 15 metres or so back up to the road - about a 3 metre drop, impossible for the 2WD sedan (it was something like a Camry or Magna) but should have been well within the capacity of a winch.

The Aldi winch is rated for just over my van + car combined (4.1T to the winch's 4.3T). I might consider a bigger one just so I have some spare capacity.

 

[DVR]

According to JOSHY, the aldi is a fairly capable unit that handles his, not too light abuse quite well. I'd say it would have pulled a magna up a hill as you describe easily.

 

[Jon]

Is that seriously all that mounts a winch to the front? A 6mm channel? Pfft... an hours work to make that!!! But how would they bolt this to on a NAV? It has the mount for the fairlead built in so all this could possibly just poke through the front of the bar with a bit of clearance and not actually mount on the bar at all.

My thoughts exactly, shouldn't put any strain on the bar itself at all as the fairlead is mounted onto the winch cradle. Just grind a hole out suitable and your away. Might take a bit of mucking around getting the cradle to fit inbetween the chassis rails.

 

[DVR]

I found these on a patrol forum and it exactly what I have in mind

Looks like a winner to me!!!!

 

[Nevyn]

Looking at those pics and I'm thinking some decent rubber and he probably wouldn't need to use the winch!!

 

[Dion]

Might need to reconsider the bits i have circled, they don't really contribute to reducing the loads transmitted through the bullbar mounts, they will just deflect.

I'll do you a better example in CAD if you want.

 

[DVR]

Yeah I'm not sure what they are about. They look too weak for fairlead mounts on their own. I think maybe he sandwiches the bar between these and the fairlead. If that's the case I don't like it. A single piece of 8 mm angle for the fairlead mount and leaving the bar independent of the cradle would be a better way to go. Is that what your thinking? Give us a look at what you got in mind. I've got Mech Desktop 6 Thanks

 

[Old.Tony]

Pro Nav I'm thinking those bits are the mounts for the fairlead and I really don't think they're up to the task.

I bet the first time that thing gets a sideways pull it'll bend those, which could twist the fairlead and may catch the whole works up making an awful mess.

 

[Dion]

Pro Nav I'm thinking those bits are the mounts for the fairlead and I really don't think they're up to the task.

I bet the first time that thing gets a sideways pull it'll bend those, which could twist the fairlead and may catch the whole works up making an awful mess.

Yeah I know, maybe I wasn't clear enough but we're saying basically the same thing.

DVR I'll knock something up and post it in PDF format, I'm on AutoCAD 2009, Solidworks 2007 and CATIA V5R19, so a PDF is the easiest way to explain what I think would be best, but I have no dimensions, so you'll have to reinterpret it. Won't be long.

 

[Dion]

Just a sketch. Something similar to the attached would be better. Just a C100-20H section cut with a 30 degree mitre, some plate and a gusset. This would require a more substantial winch cradle to weld to though. Then sandwich the bar and bolt through the plate on the end.

 

[Jon]

This is a very interesting thread, the patrol with the winch cradle is pretty much exactly what I had in mind except for the fairlead mounts. Be sure to show us all the plans when you are happy it is strong enough. I've been keen to do it for a long time but don't have the ability to work out what thicknesses etc everything has to be. It would be great to take something to the a fabrications place and just ask em to knock it up and bolt it in. Anyway it definitely looks possible with a bit more fine tuning.