Holden gone by 2017

[nathand22]

I work for a company that employs 1200 people directly and about 1000 indirectly
our future is very poor at the moment and there is a lot of talk about a closure within 2 years
it will be a shame and theres no doubt it will affect my lifestyle
but theres no sense crying about it
htfu and get on with life
one door closes and another opens
quit your whining and do what you have to do to support your family
if that means collecting cans along the side of the hwy then so be it

well said. 100% agree

 

[amber.2]

Gillard and the labor party have a lot to answer for ,wasn't it Julia who said she had singed a water tight agreement with GMH to stay till 2022 She gave them heaps of money ,the only trouble was the union straight away put in a big pay claim so most of the money ended up in the workers pockets ,Australian motor builders get twice the wage paid to their American counter parts Their average wage is over $70,000 with heaps of perks , only today Toyota workers were complaining they had to hand in a doctors certificate if they had more than 0ne day off ,
This closure has been in the pipeline for the last 18 months ,its also happening in other countries ,GM are at this present time in negotiations
with china to build 4 large Assembly lines ,they already build the Cadillac there, So in future all GM products will be built in China At $7 an hour ,
The unions and labor have put a lot of pressure on the Australian car industry with increased wages and the carbon tax , now the roosters are coming home to roost.

 

[nakedape]

They actually took what was effectively a pay cut (short shifts and a pay freeze).

And the carbon tax accounts for stuff all of total costs.

 

[Jason]

Oh please.

3 months ago they agreed to a wage freeze for 3 years and reduced break times from 40 minutes to 26 minutes. They were asked to take a pay cut of $200 per week.

Too little, too late.

 

[nakedape]

Oh please.



Too little, too late.

You're as likely as not correct - but the assertion that the hand out went directly into employee pockets is wrong.

But even if it did, lets compare Holden with Tas forestry - $40k per employee in subsidies at Holden & a massive $250k per employee in Tas Forest industry (not that the worker gets that) according to a report released this week, and in an industry that contributes less than 0.5% to Tassie GDP.

Suddenly Holden is not sounding that bad, so why cut them loose? If it were about value for money wouldn't the forest industry get the chop first? Is it because Forest workers in Tas vote libs, car workers in Elizabeth vote labour? Or am I being too cynical?

 

[Nevyn]

Blah blah blah! It's all Tony's fault! He should have kissed more butt and thrown more and more good money after bad because that's what Julia Krudd would have done (oops did do) just like with Ford (btw how did that go?) Hopefully we can get the government to subsidise my business so I can take longer hollidays and more of them or maybe pay the wages for a couple of workers for me so all them profits can stay in my pocket............

 

[Jason]

The writing is on the wall.....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-16/toyota-seeking-30-cuts-to-employee-entitlements/5158674

Toyota wants to cut what it calls "out-dated and uncompetitive terms and conditions", which also include not having to provide medical certificates for five days of sick leave.

The Federal Court documents show Toyota also wants to scrap an additional payment made to workers who are required to carry out work considered to be "unusually dirty or offensive".

Toyota also wants to shorten the plants Christmas shutdown period from 21 days to the eight days, lower the number of paid training days for staff each year, a scrap a four-hour paid leave allowance for employees who donate blood.

They shut the plant for 21 days? WTF?

 

[glc]

They typically shut down car plants in order to do maintenance or capital works that can't be completed during production time.

 

[Jason]

I'd understand it if it was being driven by the company, but they want to reduce it to 8 days.

In what world do we shut down a business for 21 days straight at Christmas, for the benefit of it's employees, AND pay them double time and a half on Sundays? The Australian vehicle manufacturing world of course!

 

[user 10312]

Getting a little over the only way is to cut wages and conditions. Perhaps we start with your wages.

Wouldn't matter how we cut wages China would under cut us every time no matter what industry.

The only way to compete with low paid nations is scale, (cost per unit comes down) high end/high tech manufacture where margins are higher. Example- Boeing and Airbus Industries

 

[Jason]

Haha, yeah now there's a retort.

What has my wages got to do with it? I'm a salary earner, working 60 hours a week, on call 24/7 unless on annual leave. I renegotiate my own salary and conditions each year myself, without union involvement. My employer is profitable and I work hard. If any of that changes I'll go and find another job. People need to stop looking for the silver platter.

And for what it's worth I agree that all 5 points, in my previous post ( http://www.navara.asia/showpost.php?p=286358&postcount=44 ), have contributed to the demise of Holden. I'm over the 'poor worker' stance people have taken, they have been paid very well in the past, they have generous redundancies and they have job security for 3 years, more than a lot of people have.

 

[Nevyn]

Your last point is an excellent one Jason! The workers at Holden and the various component makers have three years to do something about their futures. That is a lot more than most people could ever hope for.

 

[nakedape]

Haha, yeah now there's a retort.

What has my wages got to do with it?.

The point Tappet is making is that commentators are quick to point to high wages and the need to reduce them, but only if their income is quarantined from such cuts -- are you willing to volunteer for a pay cut?

He also argues that if we do cut wages our competitors will be able to cut further (advantage of having an obedient work force).

The holden issue is greater than holden itself - government, on our behalf, offers inducements for industry to set-up operations locally. A network of supply builds around that industry and society follows. When the inducements stop the industry moves and people find themselves stuck -- not just a few people but tens of thousands. Do you expect them all to simply up and move? And if they do, what is the knock on effect within the community (think supermarkets, delis, schools etc)? Do you expect the entirety of Elizabeth to simply shift to Sydney or Melbourne to find work?

While you and other conservatives on here make some good points, you also need to view this at a macro-scale and then ask what the government's role should be!

 

[user 10312]

Thanks for that clarification there. Couldn't of put it better myself

See Combet has been appointed to head a car industry task force.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...dustry-taskforce-in-south-australia-a/5160590

 

[Jason]

I don't agree that most commentators point to wages being the sole problem here. Anyone with a brain can see there is multiple problems, ingrained into the industry, government and unions. This is reflected in a lot of the reports I am reading.

My point is that it's time for the public to stop handing out money to failing enterprise, regardless of whether it is forestry or auto manufacturing.

 

[sparra04]

We have recently had our onsite canteen subsidy taken away
no more xmas party, but we do get a $50 giftcard
and we have lost quite a few benefits recently,and in our last EA we had no payrise, all in the name of cost cutting to remain competitive (I am union and proud to be)
meanwhile all the staff still enjoy supplied coffee milk sugar and biscuits, and snacks at meetings and the mid level take home well over 140k with very generous leave
us blokes on the frontline cant get a mask and a set of earplugs, mandatory ppe,
its tough everywhere, not just holden, we recently lost an alumina refinery that took 1000 direct jobs and will wipe out an entire town, didn't really make the news ??
all because it was cheaper to refine elsewhere
its about time our high flying execs pulled there heads in and took a pay cut or at least hand back some benefits for the greater good
cmon corporate australia share the pain instead of watching your fellow man drown
before its too late

 

[Jason]

Yeah I totally agree with that as well Ian, corporate salaries, at the top levels, in this country are disgusting in some companies.

 

[OneMofo]

To be honest i have only read half this thread but for my own 2c here, if you look at what Australia produces and benefits from and what has been sold off shore and outsourced in the last say, 10 years you would see that we are litterly selling ourselves out of business and country, (ask yourself what is it to be Australian or to produce an "Australia" product these days). for example our gas supplies are some of the largest in the world yet were bent on selling it off shore and buying it back at increased rates. Australia produces very little products these days that we can be proud of and call Australian, were too busy trying to expand, kiss ass, donate, grow and compete when we need to start being our own country and focusing on ourselves rather then a cheap alternatives like out sourcing.
Holden like many companies cant compete with the off shore competition as worker tend to earn 1/3 of what we do, we cant take pay cuts as the cost on day to day living keeps rising, which in turn i believe is due to us having to import a substantial amount of our daily needs. Holden have stated that sales are not the reason for the decision to go off shore, i`m sure it has contributed to this but how do you compete with a market similar to those in Asia. You will probably find that Qantas will eventually be headed in the same direction.
As for the workers we all feel they have been hard done by, most of them probably felt that the job they had was for life, (that can be seen by the amount of ages workers there) in saying that and as previously mentioned they have had and have more notice then thousands of others of recent years that have been layed off due to business closing or be moved to cheaper pastures.
If the government was to do anything with Holden from now it should be to benefit those workers who have lost their job, especially the older personnel who will find it a lot harder to secure work in the future.
And i agree with you all, the top dogs are greedy bastards who would rather earn more millions they dont really need then help out the people who actually work for their money, just look at the banks! as a prime example, all four banks made more then 4.5 BILLION profilt each last financial year.

That’s my story for today, tune in tomorrow for god knows what else I will carry on about.

 

[Jason]

Does anyone else think there is a bit of a 'rubbing our nose in it' element to the CEO comments here?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...motors-ceo-daniel-akerson-20131217-2zhwd.html

 

[nathand22]

Manufacturing in Aus was at its peek when there were high import tariffs and our dollar had not been floated on the stock market,( im talking way back when companies like victa, hills hoist, holden and ford were all we new) now those tariffs are all but gone and our dollar is strong it just makes no sense for companies to manufacture/produce things here when it can be done OS for allot less.

So whats the answer?? bring back really high tariffs and watch the price of things we buy go up and intern inflation?? or just let manufacturing here die??
So many Aussie companies have done it BONDS for eg. if you cant even make a pair of undies here then how do we expect to make cars??