Diesel Particle Filter break down

[D40Junky]

just some info on removal of the DPF filter on the autos...

Ive removed the filter..
Firstly.. made a lil bit of note... better than standard..
Havent noticed any difference in fuel ecconomy at all..
Yes it blows smoke... alot more smoke.. ( this could be because my Turbo was replaced after dumpin oil all thro the intake)

And also... engine light came on after a week..
Reason for this: there are 3 Sensors.. (1) before the DPF which measures the pressure before the filter.. then the other 2 are (2)O2 sensor and also (3)the follow up to the first one.. so number 3 measures if the exhaust gases are getting dirty or the flow is gettin blocked.. so you can imagine after taking the filter out.. sensor 1 & 3 are reading the same pressure.. which it is not happy with... so bring up a fault code with sensor (3)..

Hopefully that all made sence..
So atm... workin on getting the resistance of the sensor (3) when clean.. then getting a resistor to suit, and connect into the wires that lead to the sensor..


So overall... i found the only thing the filter has really done.. is made a better note..

Also.. the filter was replaced with a pipe which had all the fittings for the sensors..

 

[merchant]

UPDATE: Nissan are utter pricks......

After two letters requesting a refund for the repairs Nissan have flatly refused to accept responsibility for the issue and won't be refunding any costs. With the last letter they refused to reply and phoned me saying they won't be replying in writing, as requested by me, and as far as they were concerned the matter was closed. Go figure.

After the second failure i made a complaint to the Department of Commerce here in WA who, i might add, agreed with my claim. They took up the fight but that got me nowhere (toothless tigers). They wrote to Nissan about the issue and asked for a written response but Nissan again flatly refused to reply in writing (somethings up here). The Commerce people have now referred me to the ACCC or the Magistrates Court in WA to begin a small claims resolution.

One thing of note: Nissan have changed their tack on what caused the issue with the DPF. Originally they claimed they weren't responsible because the the DPF failure was a service issue and therefore not covered by warranty. They then changed to say that the issue was caused by tainted fuel. After informing them that the repairer tested the fuel and found it fine they changed tack again saying it was my responsibility to prove that the issue was caused by a manufacturing fault. That's right, i have to prove what caused the fault.

The Department of Commerce tackled them about this and their statuary warranty obligations and Nissan, bless them, have changed tack again and are now claim the car was not driven as per the service manual and it was the way i drove the car that caused the DPF to fail. I must add that Nissan again refused to reply in writing. They also said the information i required was contained within the service manual but wouldn't direct the department to the appropriate pages, nor would they provide a copy of the manual.

Now, if filling car with diesel fuel and driving it 1800kms with the cruise control set on 100kph is driving incorrectly there are a lot of cars in Australia that are going to have issues.

It is obvious to the Department of Commerce that Nissan haven't got a leg to stand on but they don't have any powers to prosecute. It is up to me on how far i want to take this. Do i pay the $70 and list the issue in the Magistrates Court of WA (no lawyers no witnesses) and make them come to the Pilbara to defend their car and this DPF thing?

Hmmmmmm, what to do?????????????????

 

[Bosshog]

UPDATE: Nissan are utter pricks......

...It is obvious to the Department of Commerce that Nissan haven't got a leg to stand on but they don't have any powers to prosecute. It is up to me on how far i want to take this. Do i pay the $70 and list the issue in the Magistrates Court of WA (no lawyers no witnesses) and make them come to the Pilbara to defend their car and this DPF thing?

Hmmmmmm, what to do?????????????????

I personally love a good fight. If it were me I'd have already paid the $70.00! Nissan are working to the law of probabilities - It is probable that most people wouldn't take it any further.

 

[Bosshog]

just some info on removal of the DPF filter on the autos...

Ive removed the filter..
Firstly.. made a lil bit of note... better than standard..
Havent noticed any difference in fuel ecconomy at all..
Yes it blows smoke... alot more smoke.. ( this could be because my Turbo was replaced after dumpin oil all thro the intake)

And also... engine light came on after a week..
Reason for this: there are 3 Sensors.. (1) before the DPF which measures the pressure before the filter.. then the other 2 are (2)O2 sensor and also (3)the follow up to the first one.. so number 3 measures if the exhaust gases are getting dirty or the flow is gettin blocked.. so you can imagine after taking the filter out.. sensor 1 & 3 are reading the same pressure.. which it is not happy with... so bring up a fault code with sensor (3)..

Hopefully that all made sence..
So atm... workin on getting the resistance of the sensor (3) when clean.. then getting a resistor to suit, and connect into the wires that lead to the sensor..


So overall... i found the only thing the filter has really done.. is made a better note..

Also.. the filter was replaced with a pipe which had all the fittings for the sensors..

Was told last week a good solution is to take the DPF off, smash the ceramic out it and then bolt it back in.

 

[merchant]

I have sent Nissan another letter today asking to be replied to i writing.

It asks:

What could cause the DPF to fail - in this instance, what caused the DPF/EMS to fail and the vehicle go into Limp Mode - what I could have done as the vehicle owner to prevent the break down and the reasons why they are failing to cover the repairs to my vehicle.

Whether they answer or not should work in my favour.

We'll see if a get a reply to this one.

 

[SOLID D22]

$70 is a small price to pay for hopefully some good results, go for it!

 

[Jason]

Yeah I'd invest the $70 as well.

 

[Martin'sD40]

I think anyone that has had a run in with Nissan and there so called customer service was more than unimpressed. I have an injector noise its only there when the engine is cold , I will add I also run LPG on my D40 and love it, however sorry Sir since you had added an engine performance enhancement your engine is not covered by warranty. Good ehh when you conciser the noise is there when the gas is not switched on !
I have since found a cleaner that seemed to of worked and the injector is clearing itself to some point never the less Nissan never once mentioned anything about there No 1 injector failures that so many have found out about

I'm my books some dealers do a great job Gold Coast Nissan is one of them but being 1000k away from them I never got the chance to use them for most of my claims

I was looking at replacing the D40 6sp to an Auto but I might just go and buy the VW when it comes out

Cheers Marty

 

[Pete22]

Hi all, thought i'd share my recent experience with my 4 mouth old D40 and Nissan so called customer service.

Bought a new D40 TD auto in Feb. Ran it in as per instructions, got the first service done and with 3500K on the clock hooked up the camper trailer and went on a trip up to the Pilbara.

We offloaded the trailer at a little town past Karratha and went on a day trip. On the way back a little light came on on the the dash. I immediately pulled over and got out the manual to see what it was. The light was the Diesel Particle Filter (DPF) warning light. The manual said to keep driving the car above 80kph and the filter will clean itself out (this was a concern considering i was doing 110kph at the time). Ok, no worries. So off we went again about 30 - 40 kms down the road the revs and torque dropped with out warning only allowing me to do 80kph.

After another stop and read of the manual I discovered the car computer had put the car into 'limp' mode because there was an issue with the 'DPF'. The manual said the car could still be driven and as i was only about 70km from the park we limped home.

I rang Nissan who arranged for the car to be towed to Karratha which is 59 kms South of where we were staying. Again, no worries. As long as it gets fixed.

6 days later i get a call from the repairer saying the car was ready to be picked up. He went on to say that all he need to do was a 'forced burn' on the filter to clear it out and it was fixed (plus oil and filter change). All up 1.5 hrs and the cost is $336.50. I asked him about warranty and he said he had been in touch with Nissan Warranty and they said it was a 'service' issue and not covered.

I immediately rang Nissan (don't)Care to be told the same thing and it was not covered. I explained to them that the car was 4 months old and had only done 6000kms and they said it didn't mater and i was responsible for the cost because it was a service issue and 'probably due to tainted fuel in the north. Naturally, i blew my top i told them i was disappointed.

No where have i been able to find when the DPF gets serviced. I told Nissan Car that i drove the car as per the manuals instructions and it still died so the car didn't do as it was supposed to so there was an issue. This fell on deaf ears and all i got was a NO!

Has anyone else faced any issues with this DPF thingy? Apparently, it is only on auto's. And does anyone have any advice about where i go next with this issue. I'm not prepared to let it go.

FYI, once i got the car back we traveled another 3500kms with and trouble of any sort.

Sorry mate but this IS a service matter. If you read your owners manual you will note a fairly lengthy section about the DPF and what must be done to ensure it remains clear. Don't do this and you will incur a cost for having a dealer do a workshop burn. General rule is that with highway running the DPF will stay clear....it automatically burns off once the pressure differential accross the DPF is sensed by the ECU. Long distance slow running will cause the filter to block and the warning light will come on....when this happens you need to sustain engine RPM to level that is consistent with travelling on the highway at 80kph in Drive - ie around 1600rpm - do this and the burn will take place and the light will go out after about 10 minutes. How do I know? This happend to me recently while in the middle of the WA outback on the Gary Highway (read heavily corrugated camel track) down near the Viveers Meteorite Crater. I couldn't get up to 80kph (max speed on this road is about 25kph) so I selected 2nd and kept the revs above 1600. Now done another 15000km since then and all is working well.
Moral of the story - read your owners manual and you will know how to respond when the warning lights come on. Lots of good hints in that little book - even tells you what to do when the red water in fuel light comes on - which has also happend to me on 2 occassions.

 

[merchant]

Sorry mate but this IS a service matter. If you read your owners manual you will note a fairly lengthy section about the DPF and what must be done to ensure it remains clear. Don't do this and you will incur a cost for having a dealer do a workshop burn. General rule is that with highway running the DPF will stay clear....it automatically burns off once the pressure differential accross the DPF is sensed by the ECU. Long distance slow running will cause the filter to block and the warning light will come on....when this happens you need to sustain engine RPM to level that is consistent with travelling on the highway at 80kph in Drive - ie around 1600rpm - do this and the burn will take place and the light will go out after about 10 minutes. How do I know? This happend to me recently while in the middle of the WA outback on the Gary Highway (read heavily corrugated camel track) down near the Viveers Meteorite Crater. I couldn't get up to 80kph (max speed on this road is about 25kph) so I selected 2nd and kept the revs above 1600. Now done another 15000km since then and all is working well.
Moral of the story - read your owners manual and you will know how to respond when the warning lights come on. Lots of good hints in that little book - even tells you what to do when the red water in fuel light comes on - which has also happend to me on 2 occassions.

Pete22

Thank for your reply. However, my issue with Nissan is that the vehicle didn't do what it was supposed to do. When the incident occurred I had just traveled close to 3000km towing a trailer with the RPM just over 2K. At the time of the light coming on i was doing 110kph without a trailer. When the DPF light came on I pulled over and read the manual because i didn't know what the light was. It said as you suggested, run the car in excess of 80kph and all will be fine. Well it wasn't. Off i went at 110kph again and 20kms down the road the car ***** itself.

My issue is that the car didn't do as it was designed to do. Nor did it do as the service manual suggested it would do. Nissan haven't been able to give me any reason why this occurred. in fact they refuse to answer any of my questions about the DPF. They just give me the run around and now claim it is my fault for not driving the vehicle correctly.

Now, luckily for me and unluckily for them, I work in a profession heavily involved in fact, not assumptions. It is these facts that i will be putting before a magistrate if i decide to go that way. Nissan have nothing other than assumptions.

FYI, originally Nissan were claiming that it was a service issue. They have now gone away from this after i asked them, as did the WA Dept of Commerce, when the DPF is serviced. They were unable to provide anything. Hence, their change in tact to suggest i was the way i drove the car.

I still haven't made up my mind which way I will go

 

[Old.Tony]

Sounds to me like the ECU failed to start the regen cycle when it should have. I can understand that the DPF would get a little full after 3,000km of towing - that's a fair load on the system. It's possible that the ECU sensed too great a differential across the DPF and refused to start the regen cycle - which brings me to the most important question of all:

Is there some way that we can initiate a 'forced burn' ourselves? Can we do this anywhere, without tools, or must we tow a 17-ton workshop bench with running water, lights, various hammers and an 11.7mm tube spanner when we go places?

Being able to do this ourselves would be a significant help, especially in the outback where the next service guy may not be nearby.

Anyone know how to do it? I'm going to check my manual and see if the procedures are in there.

 

[Bosshog]

I still haven't made up my mind which way I will go

Go for it. We'll all be sitting in the gallery cheering for you during court proceedings.

 

[Old.Tony]

I've been doing some reading on this and have discovered a few things that might be of interest.

"Lakeside Nissan" in SA are aware that the DPFs have issues, and have performed a "service regeneration" in order to fix this. Apparently this was done under warranty, at least for the Nissan X-Trail owner that reported this particular incident.

To perform a "service regeneration" - which is different to the standard ECU-managed regeneration - you need to have the car hooked up to a diagnostic console and have a Consult-III plugged in to the OBD port. With this device connected:

1. Turn ignition switch ON
2. Select "SERVC REGENERATION" in "WORK SUPPORT" mode with Consult III
3. Touch "START".
4. Wait until "CMPT" is displayed.
Notes:
* Make sure that accelerator pedal is fully released during service regeneration, or service regeneration is cancelled. When service regeneration is cancelled, retry from step 1.
* It will take approximately 40 minutes until "CMPLT" is displayed
5. Turn ignition switch OFF.
6. Replace engine oil and engine oil filter.

I found some other info that was rather interesting.

Apparently the ECU has very strict conditions that need to be met in order for regeneration to occur while the vehicle is being driven, among which are:

* Vehicle speed must be 80km/h or more (see note below)
* Vehicle engine load must be light (ie engine must not be working hard)
* Engine temperature has to be within a fixed range

About that vehicle speed - it may (as observed by Pete22) be possible to susbstitute "sufficient engine rpm" which should be anything over 1600rpm or so.

So there you go. Engine temp too high = no regen. Engine load too high = no regen. Engine rpm too low = no regen.

It doesn't say all of that in the manual either. It just says "drive at speeds higher than 80km/h" - it doesn't say you can't be towing stuff, or going up hills.

 

[merchant]

Sounds to me like the ECU failed to start the regen cycle when it should have. I can understand that the DPF would get a little full after 3,000km of towing - that's a fair load on the system. It's possible that the ECU sensed too great a differential across the DPF and refused to start the regen cycle - which brings me to the most important question of all:

Is there some way that we can initiate a 'forced burn' ourselves? Can we do this anywhere, without tools, or must we tow a 17-ton workshop bench with running water, lights, various hammers and an 11.7mm tube spanner when we go places?

Being able to do this ourselves would be a significant help, especially in the outback where the next service guy may not be nearby.

Anyone know how to do it? I'm going to check my manual and see if the procedures are in there.

I to would like to know if we the consumers can fix this ourselves. If Pete22 had the same issue i had he would have been up ***** creek without a paddle having the issue occur in such an isolated spot. I was 'lucky' in that i was only 70km from a town.

I am about to buy a Scangauge. I know from reading various threads it can clear error codes. I wonder if it can also clear the DPF error. Another thread i read suggested the software Nissan use is readily available off the net and can be downloaded on to a laptop. All you need then is the OBD cable and away you go.

 

[tweak'e]

my understanding is they should natrually regen without a force regen if the DPF gets hot enough.

one way to avoid it getting blocked by soot is to cut down the amount of soot the motor makes. single biggest influence is fuel quality. don't run crap fuel (yeah right).
the next biggest factor is EGR. the high EGR levels produce lots of soot and the amount of soot increases exponentially as EGR rate goes up. you only need to go up a small % to make a big increase in soot, so limiting EGR would be a good start.

 

[merchant]

my understanding is they should natrually regen without a force regen if the DPF gets hot enough.

one way to avoid it getting blocked by soot is to cut down the amount of soot the motor makes. single biggest influence is fuel quality. don't run crap fuel (yeah right).
the next biggest factor is EGR. the high EGR levels produce lots of soot and the amount of soot increases exponentially as EGR rate goes up. you only need to go up a small % to make a big increase in soot, so limiting EGR would be a good start.

Hmmmmm, how do i limit EGR???

 

[merchant]

I''ve been researching available scans tools online and have found heaps of them ranging in price from $50-$350. There are also a number of freeware programs available.

Apparently, all you need is a cable and interface and you have what any Nissan service centre has and can do the same procedures i.e. forced burns etc.

It's interesting to note that theses programs can be loaded on to a simple PDA and operated fro there. They will also give the same information available on a Scangauge.

If you want to have a look for yourself just type in OBD2 into a search engine and wait for the results.

Does anyone know where to get a list of Nissan error codes???

 

[tweak'e]

Hmmmmm, how do i limit EGR???

common way is to partly block the EGR pipe on the turbo side of the EGR cooler. ie fit a plate with hole in it.
not sure if you can block it right off without causing an error code.

don't forget fuel. poor fuel will mean poor burning so more smoke, but also mean more crap to go through the EGR system and back into the motor.
it also means you burn more fuel which means more soot over all.

 

[merchant]

common way is to partly block the EGR pipe on the turbo side of the EGR cooler. ie fit a plate with hole in it.
not sure if you can block it right off without causing an error code.

don't forget fuel. poor fuel will mean poor burning so more smoke, but also mean more crap to go through the EGR system and back into the motor.
it also means you burn more fuel which means more soot over all.

I think i'll pass on the EGR thing. As far as the fuel goes, Aussie land has a very poor fuel quality level so that ain't gunna work either.

 

[tweak'e]

I think i'll pass on the EGR thing. As far as the fuel goes, Aussie land has a very poor fuel quality level so that ain't gunna work either.

in that case you don't have much choice, rip the DPF out and through it away. unless you can find another way to make it burn the fuel a whole lot better. lpg injection? water/meth ?