A Unusual clutch issue, Need Help!

[bevo01]

Hi,
I own a 2006 D40 Diesel & manual 4x4.

I current am having a clutch issue I cant seem to find on many forums.

I was driving in 3rd gear doing around 40kph and went to shift into 4th and once out of 3rd it wouldnt go into any gear at all. I ended up rolling to a stop.
I turned off the car and put it in gear and limped home in 2nd.

You cant put it into gear while its running only while its off. Or if you start the car with the clutch in you can put it into any gear until you let the clutch out again, Then you cant select anything.

I recently installed a 4terrain heavy duty clutch kit w/ solid mass fly wheel however have been driving around for about 3 months with no worries and just pulled the transmission out and everything appears fine. No hydraulic leaks and also re-bled the slave, no unsual noises just all of a sudden stopped working.

any ideas?

 

[bevo01]

Correction not unusual!

 

[tweak'e]

broken clutch fork or pivot point ?

 

[Aussie Frontier]

possibly the slave cylinder needs bleeding. I had same type deal years ago in a Falcon and it was the clutch wasnt depressing far enough to properly engage or disengage

 

[bevo01]

It doesnt appear to be the pivot point or clutch fork. I Just reassembled and reinstalled the transmission this morning and all looks fine.

Im starting to run with the hydraulics. I have no leaks and I have already bled it with the same problem however I took up a little free play in the pedal and started to be able to get it into gear while running, just took a little force.

Every time I have bled it with a h/duty clutch it require the pedal to be pick up off the floor once you cracked the slave and it would then draw the fluid through. doesnt seem normal to me

 

[bevo01]

Im thinking this is a clutch master cylinder problem.

I have pulled apart the slave and inspected it, appears fine. re-bled the system with no worries. Machined a new fork push rod 15mm longer and installed it and only eliminated extra play.

It seems to go into gear alot easier while running but once in gear it gets lock in and the clutch slowly engages the fly wheel even with the clutch pedal to the floor.

 

[Farmer Joe]

Get under the vehicle and get somebody to depess clutch pedal so you can see how much movement you have at the slave.
fj

 

[bevo01]

Already have, seems to be full movement but i hadn stopped to watch it while its fully depressed and see if it bleeds back

 

[Farmer Joe]

It must be going back otherwise your vehicle wouldn't move.
Sounds like it may be internal.
fj

 

[bevo01]

I had someone reverse it up my drive way (which is steep and no more then 4m long) and have them hold in the clutch pedal as they roll back down. When they got to the bottom with their foot still on the pedal and in reverse, I stuck my head under and appeared to be that there was a very small amount of movement maybe 5mm max as they push rod retracted in the slave but couldnt tell the travel as it was rolling back down.
The car will stop on a small incline with the clutch pushed in while in reverse and wont let you take it out of reverse.

If the master is leaking is it possible to travel a certain length or only exert a certain pressure on the clutch plate before it "fails"?. It doesnt appear its slowly leaking back till its in the engaged position (or as if the clutch is all the way out)

Any recommendations?

 

[Farmer Joe]

Are you sure you bled ALL the air from the system?
It doesn't take much to upset things.
fj

 

[bevo01]

I feel pretty confident I have, even bled it a few times to double check. The fluid coming out has no bubbles or isn't air-rated. My brother is a mechanic and I have had him check everything as well.

 

[Old.Tony]

When you changed the clutch & flywheel, did you change the pressure plate?

There's a chance that the heat caused some damage to the springs in the pressure plate. This might cause the clutch to not fully disengage.

 

[bevo01]

The parts replaced were: throw out bearing, spigot bearing (input shaft brass bush) clutch plate, pressure plate and flywheel.

I have just bled the system again and it came good but then slowly started to get harder to put into gear and pull out till i no longer could. I have just o/nighted a new master and will bench bleed it and install it tomorrow.

 

[kevinm1962]

bevo i just sent you a pm if its not the master cylinder ill be surprised this issue played with me for quite a while put a kit through it mine was leaking back on itself no visible issues were evident

 

[bevo01]

Ok well after replacing the master cylinder, bench bled it then re-bled the clutch system and then cracked it another 6 times after all the air was out of the line.... the problem is still there.

I took out the machined fork push rod i made up (15mm longer) and put the stock one back in and it was significantly worse.

Im running out of ideas and the next guesses are it could be my bleeding technique (which seems to match what the correct manner has been said by people on the forum), possibly some sort of bearing of the input shaft on the transmission or maybe the clutch pressure plate is faulty somehow even though it was inspected and "appeared fine".

Any thoughts and what are thoughts on vacuum bleeding the system? I understand you can potentially pull in air around the cylinder piston seals by doing it.

 

[Farmer Joe]

Ok well after replacing the master cylinder, bench bled it then re-bled the clutch system and then cracked it another 6 times after all the air was out of the line.... the problem is still there.

I took out the machined fork push rod i made up (15mm longer) and put the stock one back in and it was significantly worse.

Im running out of ideas and the next guesses are it could be my bleeding technique (which seems to match what the correct manner has been said by people on the forum), possibly some sort of bearing of the input shaft on the transmission or maybe the clutch pressure plate is faulty somehow even though it was inspected and "appeared fine".

Any thoughts and what are thoughts on vacuum bleeding the system? I understand you can potentially pull in air around the cylinder piston seals by doing it.

You didn't put a heavy duty clutch plate in by any chance did you?
I did that with my previous vehicle, acting on clutch experts advice, and it turned out to be too thick and I couldn'd get gears when stationary.
So I ended up pulling gearbox and fitted a standard one. All good!!
fj

 

[bevo01]

It is actually a heavy dutch clutch in there. This is the second one i have had in it. I have actually been driving around with the current clutch for 2-3 months and then this all of a sudden this happened. I would agree that heavy duty clutches seem to cause more problems then anything else at this point.

I cant however understand the instantaneous failure of this one with no obvious signs. Guess ill never know unless i can fit my head in the transmission while its runing :s

 

[bods]

If you've replaced the master cylinder and its still doing it, I'd be looking at the line from the master to the slave. I guess its possible that could be leaking internally and releasing the pressure, does the level in the master cylinder change if you keep the pedal depressed?

 

[t.jarvis]

Just throwing it out there, you haven't put the friction plate in the wrong way have you? This will cause all of the issues you have described, as the springs bind up against the flywheel the clutch won't disengage.