03 ZD30 Engine stops whilst driving

[hessl]

Hi all. I have a 2003 ZD 30 that intermittently decides it wants to stop whilst driving. The problem started 5 years ago and it might happen every 6 months or so, but now is more frequent - like every week.

Its been to number of mechanics with no result mainly because it doesn't throw a fault code and without this half of today's mechanics wouldn't have a clue.
We are at a point now where we know that its going to do it sometime in the next few days because the car starts to over rev through the gear changes (or rather it doesn't quickly return to idle - getting sticky at the 1100 -1200 rpm stage). The stopping usually occurs on a downhill run when you have backed off the accelerator. No warning lights come on - you just put your foot down to go and blah - nothing.

To restart you need to turn the ignition key all the way back to off and then it starts again first time like nothing ever happened. if you don't turn the key all the way back and just try to turn it on -it winds and cranks but will not kick over. Switch it back and first time.

I have looked at a few threads in here and some people mention similar issues but I couldn't ever find anyone with a clear resolution to the problem. I have question marks over crank angle sensor, cam agle sensor, Nuetral position switch The ECU , Air in fuel lines, EGR sticking open or a problem with the turbo waste gate.

Without replacing everything at a huge expense I was hoping someone may have better clue than my mechanics. Any answers?

 

[Dave]

My old D22 did it once, I removed the Unichip and never had the probem again, I cleaned the main earths and relays too.

Did another 50,000km's and never had a issue.

 

[ben85]

mine did the EXACT same thing twice in one day about a year ago.
down hill run no accelerator, just using the engine to hold speed down the hill, got towards the bottom and try to go and nothing... wtf??? pulled over started up and off i went.

never had it happen since, dunno wtf it was.

 

[tweak'e]

sounds like fuel blockage or air being sucked in.

air you can check easy enough, fit clear fuel lines look for bubbles.

i see a report of someone who had the same problem and it was rust rolling around the bottom of the tank. maybe some dirt in there.

also check for any dented lines or rubber hoses that look they have been crimped, they could be closing shut under suction.

tho none of those would explain the requirement to shut the power down completely. thats a little odd as afaik the ECU doesn't have a feed from the acc side of the switch.
pay to check voltages. make sure all the earths are good and battery connections are ok.
could be whats running on acc is dragging the voltage down enough to trip the ecu into not allowing starting.

 

[Rumpig]

The high idle could be the throttle position sensor. Leave it idle for 10 minutes to reset it. I had the same problem as Dave with a chip, replacing the wire to the pedal fixed it.

 

[hessl]

Thanks for the advice so far. I've cleaned up the battery terminals and tightened all fuel lines. They weren't bad but there was a slightly loose connection where another lead came off the positive terminal.

I don't think I have a Unichip - that's an after market trick isn't it ? We have had the car since it was 3 months young- apparently not big enough for the first owner. If they did add one where would I look ?

The mechanic checked for air sucking into fuel and and changed the fuel filter but couldn't find anything but I will get some clear line and look for myself.

I could have added to the thread that the problem went away for a couple weeks whilst I had an issue with the battery charge light coming on (and going off after 3-5 km) but as soon as I changed the alternator, pulley and tensioner she started up with the over idle and cutting out issue.

It also went away for 3-4 months after I replaced the battery?

I also have let it idle for 10 minutes to see if that resets anything. I'll see how she goes on the run into work tomorrow. A quick whip around the block and she didn't play up - but that's the nature of the problem so far - inconsistent.

The first time it ever happened was just after my wife fuelled up in Cairns and headed home. The mechanic then suspected dirty fuel at the time and after draining lines and changing filters, all good and thought nothing more of it until 6 months later when it happened again. Its got me thinking about the possible rust moving around in the tank suggestion..... What's the best to do here - just drain the tank and drop it down to clean it ? Anyone ever posted on doing that before ? Should be easy enough for a an amateur or would you recommend a professional ? Any thing to watch out for? thks.

 

[Rumpig]

Dropping the tank is easy, theres a plastic cover in the wheel well you take off to get at the filler and breather hose connections then get under the car and take off the bash plate and then unbolt the tank, not a lot of bolts, then disconnect the fuel lines.
I doubt you have a chip so i'd discount that being the problem. Water in the fuel probably isn't uncommon in Cairns with their weather so could be the problem. Without seeing the problem its hard to diagnois.

 

[Old.Tony]

If the error has been around for 5 years it's not just water in the fuel. It could be gunk in the tank that is dislodged by stopping the pump, some fuel flows back and moves the gunk ... sounds possible but unlikely to happen with any predictability unless there was a fair bit there. Before you remove the tank, thoroughly wash and dry the outside.

I'm wondering about a few things that can cause issues with the engine like that. Heat switch can cause high idle, and it's the most common reason. If you're not leaving it on, then you might inspect the glow relays to make sure they're coming on and off as expected (what happens if a relay sticks in the 'on' position?).

The CAS isn't going to give you a high idle but it sure as eggs will stop the engine so unless the CAS signal is intermittent and combined with another problem (eg intermittent glow circuit) I can't see it being the CAS. Check electrical connections for any sign of corrosion.

So that raises the question - has the vehicle ever been submerged? Have you ever used a pressure sprayer to clean the engine bay? If so, it could be any of the electrical connections in there - you'd have to pull all of them apart, inspect, clean and reassemble.

 

[Turbo54]

I had a similar thing happen a month ago but it was as I was a accelerating up to 100kms on the freeway. I was powering up and then it was like the engine died. I pulled off the road turned the key and it started. Just before I took off our convoy had stopped and I thought Maybe I was driving on the turbo timer. Once the 1 min was up it cut out.
It has got me thinking.
T54

 

[hessl]

Thanks Tony. I have never used a pressure sprayer on it but have degreased and hosed off in there. The time before last service the engine bay came back spotless so maybe someone there had the apprentice give it a going over - but really the issue pre-dates that.
She's also been up to the Cape and out to Lawn Hill gorge but nothing more than your standard creek crossing in the dry season. Plenty of red dust - hence the need for the wash down.

Looks like a job ahead pulling out connections and refitting. I'll need another long weekend before I drop the fuel tank so I'll try this first. So you recommend a good spray of everything with WD40?

 

[Old.Tony]

WD40 could attract more dirt. Personally I'd disassemble the plug, inspect, use a contact cleaner, move on to the next plug. If I was going to submerge it over and over I'd wait for it to dry (once cleaned) and then either spray the connectors with that blue spray used for sealing battery terminals (I can't remember what the stuff is called) or I'd wrap the connector up in either a good electrical tape or (like I did for my winch's connectors) rescue tape.

 

[tweak'e]

considering the alternator issues, check the voltage coming off the alternator. maybe there is a problem with the v sense (i think its called) line. a bad connection there can cause changes in alternator voltage.

 

[hessl]

Day 1 after clearing off some of the "blue sealer stuff" and file cleaning the connections and then some minor tightening of the battery posts and fuel line connections and a 10 minute idle reset , it all seems to be going Ok for now with no over idle issue or the engine cutting out today at 80 km / hr in the right hand lane with 3 or 4 sventeen year old female (red) P platers bearing down on the inside left lane at 100 km/hr to overtake me . .... but as i said this is a come and go problem so'I'll keep on keepin on and let you know how things travel.

Please let this be something as simple as that !!! ... Im not counting on it but Pls, pls ,pls.

 

[hessl]

Hi all

1 week after tightening the connection to the positive battery terminal and also tightening a couple of the airflow clamps I have not had the engine cutting out whilst driving nor holding idle through the gear changes at around 1100-1200 rpm . Fuel economy is better as well. However I think I may now have bigger issues !


The car has started to rough idle when starting - after which it blows a big puff of white smoke. If you give it a bit of throttle the white smoke blows out and the idle comes good - off you go no more smoke. .....but today she also got pretty hot on the drive home - noticed when the AC stopped pumping cool sir - so I switched off AC and she dropped down again but still running hotter than normal.

When I got home checked the water and oil (both fully replaced less than 800km since service) and bugger me but was down about 1.5 - 2 litres of water from the radiator and all the overflow gone (also just topped up last friday) and the oil on the dipstick seems to be really black considering its age and quite thin- but also the oil is riding much higher on the dipstick than it should be - maybe 3/4 inch.

Any help Old Tony / tweake and Co. I have seen the other posts about white smoke, making oil , possible glow plug fault.

I'll also try to get to the mechanics tomorrow and see if any fault codes showing up.

 

[charlie strayarc]

Hi all

1 week after tightening the connection to the positive battery terminal and also tightening a couple of the airflow clamps I have not had the engine cutting out whilst driving nor holding idle through the gear changes at around 1100-1200 rpm . Fuel economy is better as well. However I think I may now have bigger issues !


The car has started to rough idle when starting - after which it blows a big puff of white smoke. If you give it a bit of throttle the white smoke blows out and the idle comes good - off you go no more smoke. .....but today she also got pretty hot on the drive home - noticed when the AC stopped pumping cool sir - so I switched off AC and she dropped down again but still running hotter than normal.

When I got home checked the water and oil (both fully replaced less than 800km since service) and bugger me but was down about 1.5 - 2 litres of water from the radiator and all the overflow gone (also just topped up last friday) and the oil on the dipstick seems to be really black considering its age and quite thin- but also the oil is riding much higher on the dipstick than it should be - maybe 3/4 inch.

Any help Old Tony / tweake and Co. I have seen the other posts about white smoke, making oil , possible glow plug fault.

I'll also try to get to the mechanics tomorrow and see if any fault codes showing up.

If it was my car, compression test for motor and co2 test for radiator and hope to hell its not a cracked head or head gasket.

 

[Old.Tony]

White smoke is a sign of unburnt fuel (black smoke is "incompletely burnt"). White smoke is also steam - you'll see a lot of it on petrol engines on a cold morning as they take off.

If it's only on a cold start and everything else was right I'd suspect glow plugs, but with the radiator & sump issues I'm thinking head gasket. I'd drain a little oil and test it. If you can take a sample from the drain plug you might find coolant in there (oil floats on water, but not sure about the specific densities of coolant vs engine oil).

Don't worry about the oil going black - that's normal for a diesel.

So step one, grab a sump oil sample from the drain plug. Also consider getting a sample from your radiator and take it to be tested for contamination by combustion gases/oil.

Step 2, a compression test - although the above will likely point to the problem. Hard to differentiate between a damaged head gasket and a cracked head without an actual inspection - but if you have some contamination, do the compression test to make sure that it's "one of those two problems" and then you can be confident of fixing it by lifting the head.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that if there is contamination, it's just a head gasket.

 

[hessl]

Thanks Tony. The mechanic (at service) said the radiator fluids were looking "gunky" and that is why he dropped the coolant and replaced it all. ....sounds like a crossover with the oil somewhere.
The white smoke isnt just on cold start. I have noticed after short runs around town

OK - so grab some sump oil and get a compression test looking for possible head or head gasket problems.

Anything else we are looking for in the oil test apart from confirmation of water in the oil?

 

[tweak'e]

the water could simply be the mechanic didn't bleed all the air out of the engine first.
fingers crossed it hasn't cracked the head.
oil sounds roughly normal. real common for mechanics to overfill engines. it then blows out via the breather into the intake.

white smoke at start up, check your glow plugs first. make sure its getting voltage and each one is ok.

 

[hessl]

Ok Gents - a mechanic has had a good look over (took 3 days with the vehicle (and he didn't test the oil like I wanted him to .. or crack the head open to take a look) for him to tell me what Old Tony reckoned was the problem with the head gasket ...or more likely the head itself given its a zd30 engine blowing white smoke / steam) and so now I beg you all the question - do I need to spend $4500 to replace the head + extra $$ for any unexpected surprises or $5500 - $6000 for inserting a totally reconditioned motor.

I went to one bloke and he reckons recon motor is way to go, then went to another mechanic and he reckons its better to stick with the motor you know and fix that one.

All I know is this is going to hurt the hip pocket in a big way. I AM NOT MECHANICAL ENOUGH TO TAKE ON A JOB LIKE THIS MYSELF.

 

[Dave]

Go a brand new head. Dont use a reco or a aftermarket head.