ZD30 lift pump set ups. Post 'em up!

[tweak'e]

i think thats spill line. goes from pump inlet to head aera.

reg bypass ?? if you mean reg return then yes you could plump it into that. i just plumb it back to lift pump inlet.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Thanks mate.

 

[TerranoZD30]

there is different sized versions of the VP44. by all accounts the dodge IP setup is to small for the engine. those require 15psi bare minimum and many upgrade the hoses/connections to ensure flow.

your not going to gain power by fitting a lift pump. but you may recover some lost timing, especially in the lower rpm.

the other thing is if you want to run a 2nd fuel filter due to dodgy fuel, then you have to run a lift pump. two filters is just to much restriction.

Damn! I have two filters and a R25 water separator also!

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Any harm in going higher than 5psi Tweake's? What's the safe max? I plan to measure at the IP inlet with an inline gauge.

 

[tweak'e]

Any harm in going higher than 5psi Tweake's? What's the safe max? I plan to measure at the IP inlet with an inline gauge.

theres various options on this.
some say it doesn't matter due to the USA guys require 15psi minimum and often use a whole lot more. however i suspect their version is built with that pressure in mind.
imho 4-5 psi is fine but going higher might start advancing the timing (as its still run from fuel pressure). but i don't think higher will kill it.
i would be more concerned with over pressurizing the stock fuel filter.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Ok, cheers. The fuel filter (externally at least) looks like the same construction as your regular oil filter which are designed for oil pressure and temp -surely they can take a little bit of pressure?

As to inadvertently advancing the timing a touch - what effect would that have? Worse performance/economy? Bad for the engine??

 

[tweak'e]

with low pressure neither will be an issue.

but high pressure, its not the fuel filter case that is the issue, often its the seals, the plastic bottom and collapsing the internals.

timing, with low pressure i suspect you will simply make up what its be loosing. but high pressure could advance it to much. unfortunately i can't say how much of an effect a certain pressure will make. you would need a injection specialist and to run it on a test bench.

 

[dilmah]

My airdog has fixed the rail draining issues I had. I love it how I can hold it at WOT and smash through the gears. I had it to 160km/h @ 4000rpm on a "private road" the other day and it was still pulling

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Awesome. Thats good news. What psi you got it set at?

 

[Rabbid-chop]

with low pressure neither will be an issue.

but high pressure, its not the fuel filter case that is the issue, often its the seals, the plastic bottom and collapsing the internals.

timing, with low pressure i suspect you will simply make up what its be loosing. but high pressure could advance it to much. unfortunately i can't say how much of an effect a certain pressure will make. you would need a injection specialist and to run it on a test bench.

Cheers. I'll play around with it. The reg's only supposed to go from 4.5 -9psi so not too much possibility of overdo-ing it too much.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Ok im about to start on wiring. Can anyone point me at a convenient ignition source under the bonnet, prefferably drivers side? If not i'll just grab something under the dash.

Here are some progress picks. Brackets for 044 and filter. The chinese filter was very restrictive the way the element fit inside the case, i ground about 1mm off, now it has a whopping 1.2mm clearance, lol. Can blow through it much easier now though. Might take a bit more off.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Spill line mod and gauge

 

[dilmah]

Its set at 10psi, perfect for my application

 

[Rabbid-chop]

^ nice!

Ok so we have success, after much wailing and gnashing of teeth trying to prime it after some muppet installed the pump backwards (shut up!).

Noticing the pressure drops by about 3/4 of a psi switching it from idle to "heat" mode (750-1100rpm)
Does that mean it will be even less at driving RPMs and loads?? Might have to invest in another Auber gauge and pressure sender so i can see what its doing on the road.

So anyway i set it to around 9psi at idle to compensate. Seems ok.

Not as loud as i thought it would be - I got a rubber joiner for PVC pipes at Bunnings - $8, came with hose clamps, its like its made to be an 044 rubber mount! although we'll see what its like in summer on a low tank - they are notorious for sounding like a strangled cat once they start cycling thier own heated fuel.

Anyways here's the set up. Its all hidden now with the toolbox back on.

 

[tweak'e]

yes pressure will drop as rpm goes up as lift pump can't keep up. however thats not really an issue. a lot of the problems with the IP sucking fuel up is in the low rpm where the flow is lower and lift pump can pump enough to provide pressure.

only thing i can't see in your set up is the bypass valve. you need a one way valve in parallel with the pump/filter so when its not running or causing a restriction the fuel can be sucked past it by the IP.
also while it may not be producing pressure in the high rpm, its lower the vacuum the IP would normally see, so it is still helping.

i can't remember what filter your using, just makes sure that can flow enough as the IP pumps a huge amount of fuel around.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Cheers mate. Yes there is a bypass valve, but its a cheap ebay one and im not sure i trust it. You can just see it at the top of the pic where there is a brass T fitting and a flash of silver aluminium of the valve. Had a look at a speedflow one when i was getting fittings but there is no way the ip would have been able to suck past the 2psi spring - i couldnt blow through it - but the ebay one i could blow through it no worries especially after i drilled it out. Didnt have 100% seal the other way though. And i dont trust the plastic used in the valve flap. What chack valve you using?

The filter i had my hesitations about too - but after some massaging it flows very well. The element has virtually no restriction but the tight fit in the can was a joke - needed to grind it out. Its the "epman" one off ebay.

The ute does seem to have a fair bit more down low and less clatter up high. Main thing is its peace of mind now im asking a fair bit of the fuel system with the other mods done.

Will chuck an "affordable" electric pressure gauge on to monitor whilst driving.

Thanks for the guidance mate! Cheers!

 

[tweak'e]

i can't recall what brand my one way valve is, its not a ebay job. typical silver one.
not sure what you mean by " i could blow through it no worries especially after i drilled it out".
it needs to seal really well otherwise it will cause fuel pressure to drop.

i think this is one thing these utes (and others) should have had from factory, an in tank lift pump.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8mm-5-16...814639?hash=item1e9893622f:g:XoYAAOSwhkRWcl~E

^ Its one of these (in 10mm though obviously). One side had a 5 or 6mm restriction machined into it for no apparent reason. I drilled it out to the 8mm or whatever the ID is on 10mm stuff. Put it back together and did the old blow test and was much better. Sealed better the other way after a bit of love too, but still not 100% - there would be some negligible amount of pumping loss - but not much.

All the auto parts stores around here only have washer jet and vacuum line check valves. The speed shops only have efi ones that would kill the ip. Where did you get yours from? Is it automotive or plumbing or something else?

Here is a link to the filter, its 100micron. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BILLET-E...541819?hash=item4641e9a4bb:g:ICUAAOSwgQ9V6bW6
Mine was $26 though. I wouldn't pay $60, it needed massaging to make it work the way it is supposed to.

 

[tweak'e]

mine looks like your ebay one. don't recall any restriction in it. but you know ebay, sell crap that they can't sell in stores.
my shop was a truck supply shop. sadly its now closed. but i've seen them in other suppliers catalogs.
my filter is a cheap version of that. works ok,

sounds like you have a good setup.

 

[Rabbid-chop]

Cheers mate, will have to check out the local truck parts shop. It does seem to be a good set up. Its all your brainchild though. Got an auber pressure gauge coming to see what's going on under driving conditions, in the name of science, lol.