Water/ Methanol Injection + boost setting

[Lawry]

Hey guys

Looking seriously into a water methanol kit by Devils-own.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/universal/305-dvc-30-stage-2a.html
I want this kit for EGT's, Engine cleaning and maybe a pinch of hp, mainly EGT.
There is one thread on this- search bar
however its doesn't answer the questions I'm after.
My car: d22 zd30.

First up has anyone actually running water.meth injection?
how much boost are you running.. i have mine set at 18psi
with chip//exhaust/intercooler/EGR etc etc
is anyone running 20psi on the stock turbo, does anyone know when its start to loose efficiency?
for 80% of my driving will just be straight water, as methanol isn't cheap.
however when i can i will use 20/80 maybe higher for hard trips/heavy load.

I also plan on using the progressive controller.
and will set it to start at 13-14psi with full spray on 18-20psi.
the reason for this is what i cannot reach that boost on the stock portion of the pedal stroke... as "chipit" modulate this chip to snap on/off to maintain stock economy. Stock will hit 14-15 then jump straight into 17-18psi.

so as you know the stock fuel setting is very hard (with a chip or not) to reach high EGT's, so it only seems logical to set the meth injection as the point in which the chip turns on as this is the point of high EGT's???? or should i change this?

Im looking at dropping my EGTs at the manifold by around 50-80c.
so instead of hitting the 650c manifold limit on my chip without hassle.... i want to struggle to even reach it.

Also im a little confused with the setup by devils own.....
there are two injectors on this stage 2... So does this mean two general spray options... or two injectors mounted in the car??
if so i guess a gentle spray near the turbo and a high spray at manifold... however our MAP sensor sits right near my intake manifold so theirs not a lot of room to play around with...
even with my FMIC its still just before the butter-flys.
should i relocate my MAP to near the turbo... and run my two injectors at intercooler outlet and manifold intake??

Also the meth/water tank..... thinking of just tapping out/modifying a jerry can- 20lires should suffice on the long climbs??? opinons?

A LOT OF QUESTIONS..... i no...
but im calling on anyone who has had some decent experience in this field.

Cheers

 

[tweak'e]

where to start.....

so if your looking primary for cooling and your running 18psi i would go for pre turbo as well.
its more risk and more maintenance required but it will help a lot as your pushing the stock turbo fairly hard.
i can't say what max boost should be for the turbo but most of these style turbo diesels usually run tiny turbo's that are running at almost max.
thats probably why pre turbo works so well on them.

so a DO1 nozzle for pre turbo and a DO3 for the main nozzle. maybe a DO4 as well in case you need more cooling.
also get solenoid upgrade. check valves loose to much.

just be aware there is a fair few reports of DO variable controllers going faulty. however a new model is due out very soon.

main nozzle goes on the pipe after the intercooler. would be best if you can fit it just before the butterfly after the last silicone joiner.

tank size, think of usage. DO1+DO3 is around 5gph ie 19 litres an hour.
so if you keep turn on point up above cruise boost then it won't be running all the time.
just keep in mind if your boost controller is that sudden then a basic boost switch may be a better choice.

mixtures, water does in cylinder EGT cooling, alcohol does the power and cooling of the intake air after the turbo. if its gets really cold where you are you will need some alcohol to stop the water freezing in the lines.

mixtures and pre turbo, pre turbo ideally wants to be as much alcohol as you can. alcohol is safer to inject pre turbo as it evaporates instantly compared to water which may not.
but as long as nozzle is clean and pressure is high, water pre turbo is fine and will do more cooling than alcohol.

hope that helps.

 

[Lawry]

Thanks tweake. Appreciate it.
with dual injectors, i thought i can't run them before the MAP?
as its located just 15cm from butte-rflys??

Would a low spraying d01 nozzle still be alright? an just sit the d03 at the the butterfly neck?
As for the progressive controller, The kit DV-30 or whatever its called i around 375.
the one with just a solenoid... is a fair bit cheaper.

i don't under stand how that solenoid works? can you still adjust a high and low boost setting on it? does the duty cycle progress in a linear fashion or it is an all of none effect... ie- full duty cycle or none, once boost is reached?

So you recommend i scrub the progressive controller, And upgrade my solenoid???

I no i'm coming around as a tad slow.... but i'm fairly new to this concept and i'm just trying to get my head around how the whole system works.

if i can still get the adjust-ability with a cheaper set (with upgraded solenoid) then i'm all for it!

 

[Lawry]

also as for mixtures: i will mainly be running straight water.
however i'll grab a 25L denatured alcohol (methylated spirits)
and probably 20/80 or 30/70. I'll only even water injection when i leave the illawarra and hit some of the big hills at newcastle freeway and any in between on the way to fraser.

My ute is setup as a tourer so the water injection will be purely designed for when its under load only. no point otherwise as it doesn't run hot when putting around on the standard tune.

 

[dvldoc]

Did you ever getting around to doing this. FYI. I am the founder of Devilsown Alcohol. Here's some ZD30 experiences from the Patrol guys.

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/zd30.../water-injection-zd30-diesel-whos-done-60815/

 

[dvldoc]

I run 23psi on my QD32ETI with a 7gph nozzle strait water as I use LPG fumigation for adding fuel.

 

[Turbo54]

I had a supercharged V8 and explained how I set up my own Water Meth cooling system here in another post. Hope it helps:
T54

http://www.navara.asia/showthread.php?t=17726

 

[Been a while]

Did you ever getting around to doing this. FYI. I am the founder of Devilsown Alcohol. Here's some ZD30 experiences from the Patrol guys.

Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum

Howdy bloke, any up-date on kits for the Navara ZD30?

What do you suggest for the Nav?

Cheers

 

[tweak'e]

Howdy bloke, any up-date on kits for the Navara ZD30?

What do you suggest for the Nav?

Cheers

dvldoc has been awol for a very long time. afaik hes not running devils own these days (tho i have not checked recently).

just get a universal kit. just have to say what nozzle size you want. i was running a DO2 nozzle which was fine on the old toyo.
tho i used the solenoid rather than the old check valve and boost pressure switch.

one thing with water/meth is you go through it quickly. one of the reasons i fitted the smaller nozzle.

 

[Been a while]

dvldoc has been awol for a very long time. afaik hes not running devils own these days (tho i have not checked recently).

just get a universal kit. just have to say what nozzle size you want. i was running a DO2 nozzle which was fine on the old toyo.
tho i used the solenoid rather than the old check valve and boost pressure switch.

one thing with water/meth is you go through it quickly. one of the reasons i fitted the smaller nozzle.

Ok cool, thanks for that info..

Now,, pre turbo or post? Pre intercooler or post or what about where the EGR pipe once bolted to the inlet manifold to mount the injector nozz?

How many did you run?

I'm just kicking tyres atm and just starting to look into it...

 

[tweak'e]

pre turbo has its risks. if it doesn't spray properly the water will smash into the compressor wheel and start tearing up the vanes.
it also can accumulate water in the intercooler. they typically use tiny jets for that.
the advantage is it makes the turbo act like a much bigger one.

after IC is the safest to do.
you need to mount the nozzle in the air flow which rules out using the egr pipe location.
either mount it before the inlet pipes go into two, or just fit it on one half. keep in mind that water will wash down the intake tract.

in some ways it might be a good idea to put it on the egr intake half of the manifold.
tho it means all cooling is only on one side and only one inlet port (per cyl). not sure if the temp difference would cause issues with the head.
safest is to put it before the ports split off.

i just ran one nozzle. it makes the intake seriously cold.
at the time i had access to free contaminated sugar which i could brew, then distill, and put that in the tank. but life changed before i could put that plan into action.

 

[Been a while]

pre turbo has its risks. if it doesn't spray properly the water will smash into the compressor wheel and start tearing up the vanes.
it also can accumulate water in the intercooler. they typically use tiny jets for that.
the advantage is it makes the turbo act like a much bigger one.

after IC is the safest to do.
you need to mount the nozzle in the air flow which rules out using the egr pipe location.
either mount it before the inlet pipes go into two, or just fit it on one half. keep in mind that water will wash down the intake tract.

in some ways it might be a good idea to put it on the egr intake half of the manifold.
tho it means all cooling is only on one side and only one inlet port (per cyl). not sure if the temp difference would cause issues with the head.
safest is to put it before the ports split off.

i just ran one nozzle. it makes the intake seriously cold.
at the time i had access to free contaminated sugar which i could brew, then distill, and put that in the tank. but life changed before i could put that plan into action.

I did read about that, regarding damage to the comp wheels... shame huh, bigger turbo sounds great! I do have the forefront turbo, I think they have a billet comp wheel fitted maybe a very very fine jet pre turbo
I'll post some pics of my utes plumbing and see what you guys think... maybe post intercooler at the intercooler collector??? Before the silicone connector to the swirl manifold???

 

[Been a while]

Somewhere on the intercooler or just after the main butterfly in the swirl manifold/pipe..

See how the airflow /exit comes from underneath the intercooler collector tank, how about above that in the side of the collector tank directly above the exit port???

 

[tweak'e]

i would be inclined to fit just after the main butterfly.

pre turbo works ok if you use a small nozzle like a 1gph (which it looks like devils own no longer sells). its just risky. eg if dirt gets in and partly blocks the jet it will squirt liquid rather than spray it. liquid running down the pipe is what damages the turbo.
the other option is to make an adaptor that mounts the nozzle in the middle of the tube with nozzle pointing at the compressor nut.

 

[Been a while]

i would be inclined to fit just after the main butterfly.

pre turbo works ok if you use a small nozzle like a 1gph (which it looks like devils own no longer sells). its just risky. eg if dirt gets in and partly blocks the jet it will squirt liquid rather than spray it. liquid running down the pipe is what damages the turbo.
the other option is to make an adaptor that mounts the nozzle in the middle of the tube with nozzle pointing at the compressor nut.

Ahh ok, i was thinking there also as the map/maf sensor and boost gauge fit into that section of pipe from the intercooler. .

Now what type make etc. .

I was thinking this one and running one very very fine pre turbo one and the second bigger one at that Y section.. dependson what way the butterfly opens and closes eh..

Sooo buy a stage 1 or stage 2 unit?
They're not cheap huh

Here's one make i found, thoughts bloke?

https://outlawspeed.com.au/shop/nx-15031

 

[Been a while]

Or the basic one. ..

https://outlawspeed.com.au/shop/nx-15030

 

[Been a while]

I guess it comes down tp map/maf controlled or boost controled.

I think the boost control is enough for the non veritable turbos????

https://www.prospeedracing.com.au/A...nol-Injection-Kit-Forced-Induction-Controller

 

[tweak'e]

i would not bother with the variable system.
either boost switch or full throttle switch.
trouble with diesels is your on boost a lot which means you drink the water/meth fast, especially with a variable controller. boost switch is ok with wastegate turbo as your not full boost at low throttle, but it still uses a large amount even with it set at max boost.
i have boost switch plus manual off switch so i can turn it off to save the spray for the big hills.
this is where a throttle switch is handy, you don't get spray until you hit full throttle.

fit a solenoid instead of the check valve and fit the largest possible tank you can.
i have this tank 2.25 Gallon Sumped Tank and its not big enough.

 

[tweak'e]

its worth mentioning that most of these systems are made for petrol engines and they use full boost for very short amount of time. diesels use boost a huge amount. some variable turbo diesels use constant boost all the time (when above idle).

 

[Been a while]

its worth mentioning that most of these systems are made for petrol engines and they use full boost for very short amount of time. diesels use boost a huge amount. some variable turbo diesels use constant boost all the time (when above idle).

Yup it's a allll sooo confusing for me let me tell you, but I'm onto the small print I'll speak with the manufactures before I commit...
Yeah I twaz thinking just a single injector/spray after the turbo, keep it simplze eh

Yes, the tank! I was thunking under the tray,, 20lt?? More you think?.

It's the fill port that's the killer, where? Near the diesel fill neck I guess, but what, another filler neck and cap off a wreck.... lot's to look into my man but I'm keen af to give it a go.. I love playing with this thing! It's like Meccano for those that only got Lego to play with as a kid



I think I'm onto the right one to look for, I think!
For ...1 diesel 2 turbo 3 single spray 4 solenoid 5 pump, jet etc warning of some sort .... I'm guessing that with the single spray ones there's no dash mounts of any type, it's all under bonet ??. Yes?