Want to put 33" but how??

[RLI]

Once again well said Tony,

People HAVE risked it. There is an alternative that you might want to consider, and that is a complete set of spare rims for off-roading, which insurance may not cover anyway (you should check, and if the answer is positive, make sure you get that in writing).

There are two reasons for fitting larger diameter wheels. One is aesthetics - the car looks a lot meaner and aggressive and if you're missing a bit of testosterone and this sort of thing gives you a woody then by all means go right ahead. On most states' roads, your vehicle will be illegal and either insurance will be refused or an obliging police officer will give you a canary for it.

The second reason - and the reason why you'd want to use a spare set of rims - is for differential clearance. You can suspension- and body- lift your car until the cows come home, but your diffs are going to stay at the same height. Increasing to 285/85R16s will give you 63mm more clearance under your diff. The point behind a suspension lift is to give you better ramp-over and elevate everything except the diffs. A body lift gives you better approach/departure angles and gives you the room to fit bigger shoes. Bigger tyres lift EVERYTHING.

The disadvantage in increasing tyre size is threefold.

1) You have less available power, because it requires more power to turn the wheel over - it's a longer lever.

2) You use more fuel (considerably more, particularly in traffic)

3) Your speedo and odometer become grossly inaccurate, so determining how fast you're going past the speed cameras, how long until your next service or how many km you've actually done on that tank of fuel is no longer a simple exercise.

Once again well said Tony,

Gents, a couple of years ago, I had 285x75x16 on my D22, that vehicle was involved in a motor accident in which I was not at fault.

I was lucky at the time to have driven the car home. After I contacted my insurrer, I was advised to organise a tow truck to take my car to the panel beaters for assement. When the tow truck operator came he advised me to change my tyres ASAP, he advised me that the assessor would fail the claim due to the inccorect tyre size. I was lucky enough to swap wheels and tyres over straight away with the original 245x75x16 wheels and tyres that I kept.

That’s one of the main reasons that I have just sold my D40 for the GU Patrol is to gain height legally. (2inch lift & 33 inch tyres)

PS, remember the 13th Commandment, Don’t get caught! If you do where the consequences’ in my case the consequences would have been the loss of a $25,000.00. I was lucky that the tow-truck driver saved my caucus!

Regards,

RLI

 

[MattM90]

Deffinatly sticking to 32''s then.

I hate insurance.

 

[Old.Tony]

It's not really insurance that's the culprit. All they state is that "the vehicle must be roadworthy" which is completely fair and reasonable.

The various motor vehicle authorities, based on incidents, manufacturers, lobbyists and research into accident patterns, devised the limitations by which you can modify your vehicle.

I included lobbyists, because every now and again some tree-hugging father of 27 kids ("Oh no, my wife is NOT going to have that chemical called the pill and by Jesus' good name, they don't make condoms the size of thimbles so I can't wear them either") is going to start some action that says 4WDs are too high off the ground and he can't see over the top in his Mazda RX8, and the bullbar looks like it would hurt if he ran at the car head-first and smacked his forehead on it, and he keeps waking in the night thinking there are UFOs arriving to take him away when driving lights make the fog on the hills glow ... I think you get my drift.

The law is designed so that extremes don't occur, like the example below. Egg-heads that put half a metre of lift, dramatically changing the centre of gravity, creating all sorts of vision issues too - just because you can now see over the top of the other cars doesn't mean you can see the kid standing behind your car. There are many GOOD reasons why the law limits us - but for those that have some degree of competence and are looking for a little more (reasonable) capability from their vehicle, they are hampered.

You CAN get around it. Get an engineer's certificate for the modifications. I imagine you ought to be able to do that for larger tyres as well.

You could do this:

but while that would hardly ever get stuck anywhere, it's hardly practical and the stopping power would be woeful.

 

[ben85]

Tony, you've made some fair points but I think your going a bit over the top, whats wrong with the john deere yota? do you know what brakes the guy is actually running?
The car would be perfectly safe driven sensibly on the road, look at all the things that are driven on the road, cars, trucks, crane trucks, tractors, front end loaders etc.

It doesnt need to be driven like a race car.

Plenty of stuff that is done to 4wds reduces the cars performance on road, lifts, mud tyres etc. It probably makes sence to realise this and slow down a bit, I dont drive my navara quite the same way as I drive my xr6.

And just on speedo readings, all you need to do is check your speedo against a gps.

Fittings 33s is no different to any other mod, it has its pros and cons, but it doesnt make the truck unsafe.

 

[Old.Tony]

Technically speaking the larger diameter tyre puts additional stresses on the wheel bearings, and since the D40 can't use heavy duty bearings (they don't fit with the 114.3x6 stud pattern) there's no opportunity to overcome that without changing the wheel hubs. The brakes on the D40 are somewhat inadequate too, they only just manage to stop the standard rig. One of our members here (with slightly larger wheels) was following me through the Watagan Forest and on our way out, not even driving hard, their brakes faded away and we almost had a collision - if his tyres were even bigger, the problem would have been worse.

So technically speaking and from experience, I would say that unmodified and uncertified attempts to put really large wheels on a D40 is not a good idea.

You're right, it doesn't have to be driven like a race car, but we shouldn't be catering for how we think we're going to drive the car. We need to cater for worst-case (and then repeat that without damage).

 

[navdog_d40]

wow life sucks right now all i wanted was 33's
if i dint need the navara for work id have a patrol

 

[ONLOCK]

HAve you even seen the front wheel bearings on a d40 tony, there not tiny in anyone's book, it's just that there not serviceable, and if your lucky enough to have a Spain built d40 they will only set you back 160 bucks each when you need to replace them, the main issue over everything is the brakes, there too small for the 33" tyres, but drive accordingly and you will be fine, of involved in an accident, always take the car home first, even if it means paying a couple hundred bucks to tow it and change your tyres over

 

[nismo4x4]

Yep its defiantly a bloody joke.
i wish it was like some states in the USA where you can basically do what ever you like.

its not rocket science! You can do anything you want to your car. Just needs an engineers certificate.

 

[nathand22]

its not rocket science! You can do anything you want to your car. Just needs an engineers certificate.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS "ROCKET SCIENCE"!!!!!!

I was agreeing with a previous post that it is a joke. The reason being that you have all these rules unlike some other places around the world.

Just for the record you can not just "do what ever you like" you cant just do what you want and then expect an engineer to pass it, and if you want to go to bigger tyre or lift the engineer will require a lane change test, just to see if it is safe. that in itself is a massive pain in the ass never mind the HUGE COST!!

It defiantly isn't as easy as you make out, and i still believe that going up a size in tyres should not be such a massive pain and should not require anybody to go to the expense and hassle of getting an engineer to sign off on such a small mod

 

[MattM90]

How many people actually have engineer reports?? None of guys i know do.

 

[Old.Tony]

Matt, technically speaking any modification that is done to a vehicle that exceeds predefined limits for "owner modifications" must be certified. Failing to certify the mods does (technically) make the car unroadworthy but they aren't always hounded by the cops for it.

Where it really becomes a problem is with insurance - and not just with yours. If you are involved in an accident and the accident is NOT your fault, by virtue of the vehicle being unroadworthy you might find that they will happily pursue you - for the full cost of the repairs, workers' compensation etc - because by virtue of the fact that your car was unroadworthy, you should not have been on the road at all. This sort of case is argued about in the courts all the time.

A couple of examples of what makes a car unroadworthy, that we don't often think twice about:

* Fishing rod holders mounted on the top of the bullbar where the lower part of the rod holder could gut a pedestrian that is struck by the vehicle.

* Having more than 6 forward facing white headlights

* Having any white forward facing light higher than 1400mm off the ground

* Having an odd number of white forward facing lights

* Having any rearward facing white light that is operated from within the cabin independently of the reverse switch in the gearbox while the vehicle is in motion

There are naturally tons more. Most people don't think about these things, the thought of them being illegal never crosses their minds and a policeman looking at the vehicle might not even pay attention to it.

But the insurance assessor figuring out who's going to pay for the mess is going to see any of these as an easy out. It only becomes an issue when you have an accident, which isn't easy to predict!

 

[NA_R33]

I've had a few accidents, one at fault, one with a big roo and one an idiot reversed into me, all in illegally modified cars. Before the fourbies was the skyline that was two low, wheels too big, cut reo bar to accomidate body kits just to mention a few things, all things the assesor mentioned but never declined a claim. The most recent was nearly writing off the king cab hitting a roo, with 33's fitted (to the standard rims), extended shackles and apparently illegal rod holders and again didnt have a drama. I have spoken to multiple assesors and have been told that unless they can proove the modification caused the accident they will not pursue it.

I have plenty of mates that are mechanics that see very unroadworthy cars accident damaged on a daily basis and they are never declined or refused an insurence claim because of it.

A recent example that is fact not story was my best mate who rolled a near new SR5 hilux with balled back tires after aqua planing and hitting a guard rail on the M1 and didnt have any dramas with the insurance company...

Just my 2c...

 

[Old.Tony]

I find that astonishing, but in a way not surprising. Legally, insurance companies have every right to decline insurance - check the policies, they'll all say "as long as the vehicle is roadworthy".

If they're not using what is really an escape clause then good luck to the guys that had their claims approved.

For my, I'd rather not tempt fate, because I'm going to be the sucker that gets his insurance declined - and worse, cop the bill for the other vehicle too - if I put a foot wrong.

 

[RLI]

Just RLIs opinion!

G, day gents!

I agree with everyone’s excellent comments already outlined on this thread concerning 33inch tyres, that said!!!!

However, as previously stated by Tony, we must remember that the regulations are there to be enforced if the relevant authorities wish to do so. As a former private investigator and former company director of ASG Dynamic Solutions (a Queensland based Para-legal firm.) I would always be mindful of the “what if scenario?”

NA R33 stated; “I have spoken to multiple assessors’ and have been told that unless they can prove the modification caused the accident they will not pursue it.” I agree with his comments 100%, however, we must always be mindful that we are all accountable for our actions and should the shit hit the proverbial oscillating fan blades. (Please remember Ignorance of the law is no excuse!)

Currently the NSW State Government is turning its attention to the trucking industry regarding speed limiters being tampered within trucks causing serious accidents. If multiple accidents occured as a result of a modified 4x4s killing innocent citizens, then watch out people we will be next under the spot light.

One of my favourite sayings to my friends and colleagues over the years is; “if it rained cunts knowing my luck, I would still end up with an arse!” in other words, if I had an accident knowing my luck, I would end up with the wrong assessor failing my claim!

PS, This is only my opinion!

Regards,

RLI

 

[NA_R33]

Again agreed and I obviously do not recommend throwing 33's on your truck based on my experiences. I guess from having worked in the automotive industry, and always been into modified cars of all descriptions with no major dramas to date, I perhaps have a diluted interpretation of the possible implications. Well not perhaps that's exactly what it is.

 

[ONLOCK]

im with na r33, iv had my share of modified cars, only been in 1 accident on the street but wasnt my fault, even though i wasnt at fault when the police turned up ( the guy tried to run away from me... long story) i was defected for bald tyres on the rear. had new ones in the back seat i just got fitted up and was going to change them over when i got home, this was all in the police report and still my car got fixed under the other guys insurance.


so all in all, know the rules, but if you want to modify your truck beyond those rules keep in mind that i could go wrong and if it does you could end up in trouble but from working and generally being in the car industry it rarely gets looked at.

 

[NA_R33]

Here here! Also keep your truck/car/bike looking neat tidy respectable and not over the top and you will again hugely decrease unwanted attention and possible problems.

In regards to the original question, fitting a bull bar will allow a good wheel tech to pull the wheels forward and stop them rubbing, no hammers or heat guns required.

 

[navdog_d40]

I'm just also going to throw this out there I want 33's I'm not against it in anyway .

But a lot of people are prob thinking of insurance as in there truck well worse case I fix my truck who cares yeah?
But if u have a accident and it's your folt and they tell u to stick it not only now do u have to pay for your hard earned navara u have to now pay for what ever els u made a mess of.
I think it's something to keep in mind. I do want 33's I'll look in to it a little more prob will
Put them on but I'll drive to suit .

 

[MattM90]

Love the info boys.. Thanks. Does anyone know how much an engineers report is?

 

[nathand22]

Im not sure about the cost, But with anything that will change the centre of gravity like lifting the car to high from tyres or suspension they will want a lane change test.

The owner of "THE ULTIMATE SUSPENSION COMPANY" had to do that to get there 5inch kit for the hilux certified.
Apparently the only way or place you can do a lane change test is to hire a run way at an airport (a country type airport, they did theirs at CAMDEN)
The other option is to hire a race track.
So im sure it wouldn't take long to add up to big $$$$
Engineer for the day, hire a place to do the test, the engineer to write up his report, then the certificate itself, and im not sure but i would think there would need to be some other people/authority to monitor the whole thing.