Timing Chain Failures and Oil Filters

[Old.Tony]

I'm looking to see if there's a trend with timing chain failures - are they related to oil filter choice?

If you have had a timing chain fail on you, this poll is for you!

Comments/extra discussion is welcome.

 

[abouttogobush]

Tony are your thoughts that the aftermarket filters are restricting the oil flow to this area?.

 

[kernels]

I think it's more that the non-return valve on aftermarket filters may not be suitable for the 'upside down' mounting on the YD25, allowing the oil to drain out overnight and thus causing the chain to run without tension for a while every time you start it up.

Unfortunately there are not really actually that many timing chain failures, and a lot of the failures would be on second hand vehicles, so the current owner would have no idea about past service parts.

But a good idea to try and see if there is any correlation!

 

[Old.Tony]

It's less a case of possible restriction but more a case as kernels says that there's a 'dry running' period on cold start because the filter empties out. The actual failure of the timing chains seems to be caused by a tensioner that's not doing its job and I'm wondering if the choice of oil filter is causing the damage to the tensioner, which has the obvious consequences.

 

[Iceman]

Interesting thought. I had put it down to a crappy design over all. I wonder if there is some issue with the oil leaking out of the tensioner while at rest and running and perhaps causing a lower pressure in the tensioner allowing the chain to run a bit slacker than ideal.
Perhaps the chain setup is not all that bad and the tensioner is the weak link...?

 

[camo.b]

I had a normally running thai d40...i fitted a ryco and i had top tensioner noise on cold startup...changed to a gen nissan and its perfect again.enough said for me never to use ryco on my d40

 

[Simsy]

As far as I know my navara was only ever serviced at the dealer so my guess is it has had original oil filters used chain failed at 130 ish

 

[Rumpig]

I had a normally running thai d40...i fitted a ryco and i had top tensioner noise on cold startup...changed to a gen nissan and its perfect again.enough said for me never to use ryco on my d40

I do remember reading somewhere ( don't remember where or what type of cars ) that there was a batch of aftermarket filters that had faulty bypass valves that were causing problems.

 

[camo.b]

Hmm very interesting...few blokes from queensland had the same issues i had with ryco but some do not..they always run ryco....still off my list.not worth the risk id say

 

[4 naving]

I first discovered this with ryco and tried several other brands, Sakure, Donaldson all with the same results, noisy tensioner on start up. Nissan filter fixed it every time.

 

[camo.b]

Yours a d22 or d40 and or thai/spanish built?

 

[kevvyp]

When i bought my 2007 D40 it had a Ryco filter fitted, it also had a slight rattle at start up, i changed the oil and filter (with Ryco) and it still had the rattle, i removed the Ryco and fitted a nissan filter and the rattle has all but gone, now also use 10/40 oil which has also helped stop the rattle.

Kev

 

[steel d40]

Mine had been fully Nissan serviced when the chain was changed. Guessing they only used their own filters. Interested reading about Ryco filters though. Have been using them since took over servicing. Hadn't noticed anything.

 

[4 naving]

Mines a d40 Spanish 07. Genuine filter and 10/40 oil as I don't have a dpf. It only rattles when I use non genuine filters.

 

[abouttogobush]

I worked on heaps of the old Astron 2000 that derived from the Sigma in the 70,s to the shitbox Magna with efi. The plastic tensioner on the chain would flog out rendering the chain a loose mess. When did you last see a 2.6 Magna on the road?, they are all now scrap. Obviously this has nothing to do with this discussion but in this time the manufacturer needs to address a repetitive problem, if it comes down to using aftermarket filters causing these issues beware. Sadly many still use k and n in the scrub for their air they simply do not filter like paper, and it has been proven on the dyno there is no h/p gain at all.

 

[Bad Juju]

Sounds as shitty as the (non sportster and non rod) harley cam chain tensioner issues of the 80', 90's and up until about 2006.

Stuffed by 20,000 kms....

https://www.doesharleysuck.com/content/harley-cam-chain-shoe-tensioner-20k-service

 

[Old.Tony]

^ I think that's the exact point of the issue here. Without wanting to sound like Frank, the chain failure is only a symptom, it's not the cause. My belief is that the chain fails because the tensioner has already failed, and this thread/poll is trying to gather info on whether the tensioner failure may or may not be caused by the choice of oil filters.

 

[tanz]

Never had a failure on my own personal vehicle, but I'll weigh in on the discussion through a customers failure.

I was doing the 1st service outside of the warranty period at 110,000km and noted a "horrendous" timing chain rattle, to the point of being frightened to test drive the car in case of failure! All servicing had been conducted prior by a local dealership, using (as expected) genuine parts.

The only other vehicle I've had through the workshop with a noted rattle, had a not so regular service schedule, which may have contributed to the noise.

Cheers.

 

[Stevo_d40_05]

^ I think that's the exact point of the issue here. Without wanting to sound like Frank, the chain failure is only a symptom, it's not the cause. My belief is that the chain fails because the tensioner has already failed, and this thread/poll is trying to gather info on whether the tensioner failure may or may not be caused by the choice of oil filters.

I heard so many bad things about navs timing chains. I got paranoid and took it to the master of timing chains Paul from YD25.
He told me my top one, (the double row one) was fine with about 3mm wear.
I told him to check the bottom one. He said if I do you might as well do it anyway, which I said ok, do it.
There was no problem on either. The engine he said was the cleanest he'd ever seen...
That was around the 245,000 km mark.
I've only used aftermarket filters and so did the guy I bought it from.
I only ever use penrite 5w-40 full synthetic Eco. Oil.
The only engine issue I've had is limp mode, I changed the SCV myself and never had it again.

 

[Old.Tony]

So far it's looking like it's not an oil filter choice that's causing the problem, so what could it be? Oil viscosity? I'll have to go back through my service reports to see what oil they put in mine.