Thoughts on engines these days

[happy john]

It's a good topic i come from a large group of family and friends with 8 various navara's and patrols ect d40 and d22 with both donks mine puts out the most grunt and when driven nicely will return low 8,s per 100 around town sure i spent the money to get the power but simply saying the 89 patrol is at 900k with only oil changes every 5k and a valve grind will my d22 2.5 do this?no way in the world.

 

[tweak'e]

yea so in actuality the original renault design is not exactly a bad one just Nissan thinking they know better and bolting on all this unnecessary crap to it, should of just put the D22 variant in the trol, not like 6kw and >40nm are going to be all that noticeable, I have had half a tonne of wood in the back of mine and didn't even know it was there so its not like the motor wouldn't cope with the extra weight.

big difference in power and drivability between patrol zd30 and navara zd30.
patrol zd30 outdoes the td42t especially in low rpm's.
navara zd30 in the patrol (in stock form) would be a lot slower due to lack of low rpm power in the heavier vehicle.

the common rail zd30 seams to be ok. however they are still short on power for the engine size compared to what euro diesel put out.

 

[jaymac90210]

It's a good topic i come from a large group of family and friends with 8 various navara's and patrols ect d40 and d22 with both donks mine puts out the most grunt and when driven nicely will return low 8,s per 100 around town sure i spent the money to get the power but simply saying the 89 patrol is at 900k with only oil changes every 5k and a valve grind will my d22 2.5 do this?no way in the world.

Any diesel motor looked after well can make that many k's before a rebuild. The old man has a 3.2L 4cyl Mazda truck which has the original motor, gearbox diff etc and has 850,000 still going strong! Little things like electrics play up here and there but man that thing doesn't want to die.

 

[tweak'e]

It's a good topic i come from a large group of family and friends with 8 various navara's and patrols ect d40 and d22 with both donks mine puts out the most grunt and when driven nicely will return low 8,s per 100 around town sure i spent the money to get the power but simply saying the 89 patrol is at 900k with only oil changes every 5k and a valve grind will my d22 2.5 do this?no way in the world.

i wouldn't be to sure of that. plenty of common rail engines hitting big milage these days. big rig common rail motors still have to do the same km's as their older ones did.
the engineering is so much better these days and lubricants are far superior.

the biggest thing is damage to the injection system. no one is going to buy a $15k 2nd hand ute if it requires $15k worth if injection parts.
crap fuel is the biggest killer.

 

[jaymac90210]

^^And on that note^^ I'm going to be keeping my D22 3.0L for a very long time, so I have good faith that the way I look after mine it will go beyond 600-700,000kms before needing a rebuild

 

[happy john]

Yeah mate i know what you mean if that truck is the t3500 with the splitter box it will go over 1,000000 but our toys won't i do oil and filter every 5k but i carn't see any big kms mind you i would of prefered the zd30 to begin with i think it will last longer treated properly than the 2.5 the mate has over 280k on his 2006 22 we both filled up in brisbane on a trip to cania gorge at monto 426kms he was just below half i was almost empty pulling 1.6t of van over hills but anyway this is off the subject i still reckon oil changes at 10k are not enough for a little diesel given the tiny sump of the d22 2.5

 

[Lawry]

the zd30 are a really nice engine.

when mine fails or starts to get lazy, i want to rebuild the engine to High spec, eg fully balanced and blueprinted, Ceramic coated pistons, ported with head work with matching ports.
Has anyone ever looked into stroking or getting it bored out to say 3.5lt
is there enough room between each cylinder to bore out, any pistons out there that would be available to larger capacity?

 

[gadgets]

The strange thing is, the 4.2 patrol has a great reputation for having a long life but I come across plenty of them on car sales websites that state they have rebuilt motors, a lot around the 350000kms mark, lack of maintenance maybe.
Speaking of engine longevity , what are the initial symptoms that indicate a diesel engine is on the way out?

 

[Dave]

^ No, they're just buckets of shit. They overheat just seeing a hill.

Toyota's 1HDFTE shits all over the overrated and 30 years outdated TD42.

Speaking of high km's, Detroit's MTU Series 60 will do over 1 million km's, same goes for the Cummin's N14, the older C12, C15,C16 Catapillar motor's will do the same.

They were all electronic fuel pumps, I am sure some truck drivers cried when mechanical injection was phased out, but they still hold up.

Some of the exchanges I work in have Cummin's 6BT's, they're a 5.9L inline 6. Can fire up at anytime, bigger motor's are not always needed.

Seen a Cummins KTA19 a couple of months back, that was the temporary generator for the local Node while they were installing the Detroit 16V92 (I think) because of the power hungry NBN. The old 12V71 couldn't do the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3WFSSHLXQ

A mate was driving a Mitsubishi truck a couple of months back, had a 6 tonne gearbox on the back..

The engine was only a 7.5L, combined weight of the truck would have been around 12 tonne.

So why cant a 3L move a Patrol around with ease.

Oh and remember the Toyota 13BT. 3.4L turbo 4 cylinder diesel, Hino built that engine though. It dragged the Mid wheel base Landcruiser with ease.

Some motors these days are just shit designed.

 

[Dave]

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqyI5sboJfc[/YT]

Turn up the speakers, still the best sounding engine of all time.

 

[Krankin]

So why cant a 3L move a Patrol around with ease.

prolly a lot to do with shit gearing

 

[gadgets]

They overheat just seeing a hill.

Yes, if you look on the patrol forum their is a huge amount of posts on the 4.2 overheating problems. I don't get it, why can they have a great reputation if they have so many problems towing during summer/hills etc?

My d22 can pull any weight Ive thrown at it on a 40 plus day with the aircon on and it never gets anywhere near getting hot enough to do damage. (using an aftermarket digital gauge).

 

[Dave]

I had 3 tonne behind my D22 before and it never even hinted at warming up.

The Isuzu 3.9L engine used in the Army Landrovers is a heaps better motor, the SD33T weren't prone for overheating and the Hino/Toyota 12HT was a more advanced engine then the TD42.

Toyota killed the 12HT in 1991 I think it was.

 

[Navmania]

The over heating problem is not all true.

I have owned tree patrols now all with 35's and have never boiled one.

I put it on the patrol forums years ago that the temp gauge is sensitive. I had one of mine of the top of the gauge (HOT) because the hose came off the overflow bottle and half emptied the radiator and when I stopped at the servo to fill it up I could take the radiator cap straight off and everything was only warm to touch but the gauge was off the dial.

After that I fitted a extra temp gauge just to see, and when pushed in summer the genuine gauge would be showing that the engine was hot but the after market gauge hardly moved.

From what I could see is that the scope of the gauge only covers a small temp range.

When I owned mine all my mates had them to (five in all) with 4.2's, and they all reckoned they got hot but none of them ever got out and felt the engine or checked radiator, they all just looked at the gauge.

If tuned properly and not over fueled they should run with no problem.

One of mine ran aftermarket turbo at 14psi and ran great, never got hot. Saying all that the 1Hz is a top engine to. Just don't like the timing belt.



My old girl. Had it from new, 94 model. This was literally the last SWB sold in Australia. Till some tool stole it and I never saw it again.

 

[Old.Tony]

sorry but none of thats true.
they all have oil squirter's and they never ran hot to make power.

nissan screwed up the piston design, the increase in oil was a bandaid.
patrols have issues with the turbo/egr control system which causes the boost to drop to 4psi while maintaining the same fueling. hence high egt's.

intake clogging with egr soot, lack of oil cooling in hot climates, the maf only control system, variable turbo vanes sticking, etc are all contributing factors.

Then I'm glad of forums like this, where things like what had been explained to me - in some detail - can be corrected. Thanks - it's still a learning exercise, every day.

 

[Dave]

The ZD30 is a strong engine, Nissan just got lawn mower specialists to develop the control system for the engine.

Pull the engine down and the strength is easy to see. What Tweake said is basically it, however I dont think the piston's are a problem.

 

[Dave]

The over heating problem is not all true.

I have owned tree patrols now all with 35's and have never boiled one.

I put it on the patrol forums years ago that the temp gauge is sensitive. I had one of mine of the top of the gauge (HOT) because the hose came off the overflow bottle and half emptied the radiator and when I stopped at the servo to fill it up I could take the radiator cap straight off and everything was only warm to touch but the gauge was off the dial.

After that I fitted a extra temp gauge just to see, and when pushed in summer the genuine gauge would be showing that the engine was hot but the after market gauge hardly moved.

From what I could see is that the scope of the gauge only covers a small temp range.

When I owned mine all my mates had them to (five in all) with 4.2's, and they all reckoned they got hot but none of them ever got out and felt the engine or checked radiator, they all just looked at the gauge.

If tuned properly and not over fueled they should run with no problem.

One of mine ran aftermarket turbo at 14psi and ran great, never got hot. Saying all that the 1Hz is a top engine to. Just don't like the timing belt.

View attachment 11036

My old girl. Had it from new, 94 model. This was literally the last SWB sold in Australia. Till some tool stole it and I never saw it again.

The radiator for the TD42 is smaller then the TB48DE, ZD30DDTi, TB45E from memory. Body lifts and shit done bad will have a negative effect on the cooling system too.

 

[d22dave]

The 4.2 trol at work split a radiator at about 100 thou, it was coming up the pentland hills on the western highway with 2 cows on the tray in a stock crate, on a 30 degree day, The 2.5 courier towed the lot 40 k,s home, Then they bogged it and over heated it killing it at 140 thou, Hello new motor

 

[Lawry]

Mate has a 4.2TD rebuild with 60k on the clock, overheats easily in traffic.

i agree the zd30s are a great engine, navaras definitely got the better design out of the two.
I agree with dave, piston design would be down the list, Its how the engine is Managed, Any engine pulling up hills and spiking from 4 to 20 odd psi will run explosive EGT (in particular at 4psi), ive seen navara running boost problems and they would cruise up a small incline at 550(manifold temp) when they should be seeing 400 solely due to only pushing 4-5 psi instead of 13-15, emphasize that when you sink the pedal..... any piston with blow in that situation (over time).
Hence why i plan to make mine even better.

 

[4BYFOR]

Well you know what they say.. Bigger is better