Strange clutch issues

[GoOff]

Hi all,

I have a strange issue after new clutch installed. All is working quite well after reverting back to regular clutch. I had two hd clutches blow up on me in two years due to no apparent reason except that they never sounded or shifted quite right. With the new clutch all works ok except for two things I have noticed

1. There is a small whirring/bubbling noise that occurs from master cylinder area when clutch pedal is depressed to upshift under load. Does not occur when downshifting or when stopped. System has been bled twice and master cylinder is only around a year old and has no noticeable fluid loss.I am wondering if it may be something internal as it did not do it before new clutch was installed.

2. 1st and 2nd gear are occasionally harder to engage with a slight grinding. This only happens intermittently and more often when clutch is cold. Am wondering if this is clutch or transmission related and if it is transmission, is there an additive that might help? If I put in a transmission additive and it improves at least this would narrow down the source of the problem.

Any input from the brains trust is appreciated as I am very frustrated with this whole D22 clutch issue. One thing I would say is avoid hd clutches unless they have been tried and tested, as this is when all the issues started.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[KevinE]

I'm wondering if the whirring/bubbling noise that occurs from master cylinder area is something happening in the power brake booster (if a D22 has one?) &/or the accumulator?

 

[Damian m]

To me that sounds like the clutch hasn't been adjusted correctly.
As a matter of interest is it the same shop replacing the clutches?

Fyi, my factory clutch has done over 430000 and the majority with weight in the back and a trailer attached.

 

[Aaargh]

Does the problem engaging 1st and 2nd gear only happen when the engine is cold and improve after a few minutes of driving? If so gear oil may be too thick

 

[GoOff]

To me that sounds like the clutch hasn't been adjusted correctly.
As a matter of interest is it the same shop replacing the clutches?

Fyi, my factory clutch has done over 430000 and the majority with weight in the back and a trailer attached.

It is the same shop. They are Diesel specialists and I have suggested this but will follow up further.

 

[GoOff]

To me that sounds like the clutch hasn't been adjusted correctly.
As a matter of interest is it the same shop replacing the clutches?

Fyi, my factory clutch has done over 430000 and the majority with weight in the back and a trailer attached.

The clutch originally started slipping but have only owned the car since 80,000 and I suspect it was not driven well before then *** I am pretty light footed on clutches.

 

[GoOff]

Does the problem engaging 1st and 2nd gear only happen when the engine is cold and improve after a few minutes of driving? If so gear oil may be too thick

Unfortunately it is constant.

 

[Damian m]

It is the same shop. They are Diesel specialists and I have suggested this but will follow up further.

Not all diesel specialist are actually good at the work they do.

 

[GoOff]

Not all diesel specialist are actually good at the work they do.

Agreed and do not use them anymore for the more major work. do anything that doesn't require a workshop or specialist tolls myself anyway, but had to return to them to be covered under warranty. They have stuffed this up twice before and seem to have done it again. With a few more days driving I have adult the master cylinder pushrod to lessen the dragging and changed clutch pedal play. This has helped with that issue somewhat b ut mystery noice continues. I found some information that says it might be vibration internally and I hope not or clutch will have to be pulled apart again.

Did I mention that they have been Repco clutches. I wouldn't use them as they definitely do not work well in these cars. Never had such a drama before in my life.

 

[Horatius]

There is a trap when installing the thrust bearing on these. It's not immediately obvious but it's possible to put them in 180 deg out which will look right but doesn't allow the bearing retainers to pivot properly on the fork. This causes all sorts of wear and all sorts of seeming clutch problems. A long shot perhaps and you would expect mechanics to realise all of this, but have seen it happen.

If you slide the rubber boot off and get someone to push the clutch peddle you might be able to see with a torch if it's sliding/pivoting freely? Could be something going on with the pivot point itself? Vaguely remember changing adjustment on mine.

https://www.autobiz.ie/garage/navara-clutch-release-bearing-advice-from-blueprint
The 1st/2nd gear thing could be either clutch or gearbox, seems strange that it coincides with a replacement clutch though. Also sounds strange you are on your third clutch. I had a thrust bearing go at 300k kms so bought a new clutch and rear main seal, thought I might as well replace the lot while gearbox was out. Was a hd one ("extreme outback" from memory?) which had more to do with price than the fact it was "hd". Generally I'm sceptical of things marketed as such but without wishing to jinx myself, it's been fine for the last 100k kms. Was all unnecessary in the end anyway, I think the original clutch would have lasted the life of the vehicle.

-edited to say that above is relevant to zd30 models. Not sure which model you have, but afaik gearboxes are the same (and use the same GL-4 oil) but clutch setup/ thrust bearing would probably be different. At any rate on these models putting thrust bearing in wrong will wear out the tube it slides on and it will try to push against the clutch diaphragm at an angle, won't last long that way and can give all sorts of problems in the meantime. Got to be a reason that you have gone through so many clutches, seems unlikely they were faulty parts to begin with (but possible I suppose).

 

[Horatius]

Hi all,

I have a strange issue after new clutch installed. All is working quite well after reverting back to regular clutch. I had two hd clutches blow up on me in two years due to no apparent reason except that they never sounded or shifted quite right. With the new clutch all works ok except for two things I have noticed

1. There is a small whirring/bubbling noise that occurs from master cylinder area when clutch pedal is depressed to upshift under load. Does not occur when downshifting or when stopped. System has been bled twice and master cylinder is only around a year old and has no noticeable fluid loss.I am wondering if it may be something internal as it did not do it before new clutch was installed.

2. 1st and 2nd gear are occasionally harder to engage with a slight grinding. This only happens intermittently and more often when clutch is cold. Am wondering if this is clutch or transmission related and if it is transmission, is there an additive that might help? If I put in a transmission additive and it improves at least this would narrow down the source of the problem.

Any input from the brains trust is appreciated as I am very frustrated with this whole D22 clutch issue. One thing I would say is avoid hd clutches unless they have been tried and tested, as this is when all the issues started.

Cheers,
Pete

ps.
1. I think it might be normal for swishing noises in a master cylinder. Haven't particularly listened for any but would be surprised if there wasn't, due to the way they work.

2. 1st gear can be a bit stiff on mine till it warms up (which I put down to age at 400k kms). It's not bad or anything, but noticeable. Once warmed up everything works smooth, simply falls into the rest of the gears without effort.

Have you noticed any metal in the transmission oil (if you change it yourself)? It's not unusual to have some shavings, but the type and amount could give an idea of transmission wear? Also (as has been previously mentioned) what type and grade of oil are you using? It should not only be around 75w/90 but specifically a "GL-4" spec oil. This seems important as I have heard of people using later fully synthetic "GL-5" spec oil thinking they are doing the right thing, only to have all sorts of transmission problems. Have also heard (though can't really vouch for) that it is because of metals used and design, these gearboxes need the GL-4 spec oils.

 

[GoOff]

Thanks for all your responses. I have checked the transmission oil and the mechanic who changed the blown clutches under warranty did not change the transmission fluid as it came out milky brown and foamy. Since I have changed this the transmission is working much better. Oil used was Penrite Pro Gear Oil - 75W-85 GL-4 full synthetic as recommended by a mechanic mate. Seems to have done the trick for now so will change again before recommended interval to ensure top notch lubrication.

There are still issues in transmission but it is driving fine for now. replacing the master cylinder also made a difference as the previous one did mot allow for any free play. The main ongoing issue is that it makes noise in neutral, but has done so for around 50,000km so far so am hoping this does not become any worse. Any suggestions on what this could be would be useful as I have had various theories from several mechanics.

 

[Horatius]

It should like that oil, sounds like the old stuff had water in it?

What type of noise you getting? A squeaking, low rumbling noise, something else? If you're sitting there idling in neutral, does it change when you push the clutch in?

 

[Old.Tony]

It definitely sounds like the old oil was contaminated. Couple of things to do now:

1) Change the oil after 1 month. You want to examine it for signs of rust and/or further contamination

2) Examine any possible opening (breather?) for possible ingress of water to the gearbox.

 

[GoOff]

Thanks all for your responses to this post. All was going well until my most recent long trip. Gearbox seems to be overheating during longer drives at medium speed, as can feel heat thrpugh gearshift and hand brake area. Quite concerning as I am a long way from home and need the car to complete the trip.

Any advice appreciated. Also, I have not had a chance to change the oil again yet as advised by old Tony so will do this as soon as I get the chance first to see what is in the new oil.

 

[GoOff]

It definitely sounds like the old oil was contaminated. Couple of things to do now:

1) Change the oil after 1 month. You want to examine it for signs of rust and/or further contamination

2) Examine any possible opening (breather?) for possible ingress of water to the gearbox.

Thanks for the advice. I have checked the above and all seems fine. I have also noticed that the gearstick heat shield was not installed correctly and boot had come off. I have repaired al this and even taped up any areas that could allow heat / noise ingress. However, I am still getting issue and have to run A/C even when not that hot too cool area down.

Do you know what the components are for the rubber heat shield area below gear shift lever. Mine only has boot and thin rubber shield and I am wondering if they failed to install something when clutch was changes (they stuffed up slave cylinder pin so now have no faith in them at all). I have been looking in workshop service manual but can't find this anywhere.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Old.Tony]

I can't help with the stuff that ought to be there (hopefully someone else can) but I do know that in my car the cabin gets really warm after a while and it has done since new - but we do drive it for considerable distances - the picture in my avatar was taken the day we picked up the car new, at Coopernook State Forest which is considerably north of Newcastle where we lived at the time.