Just come over to the Nissan Navara

[Daveo52]

Just come over to the Navara, have a 2016 NP300 I have to say so far not particularly impressed. Had many years with Land rovers and Mitsubishi. Lots of problems and not great off road in comparison.

 

[KevinE]

What problems are you having?

It has more problems than Landrovers or Mitsubishi 4x4's? I own a Mitsubishi 4x4 & have driven lots of Landrovers. I wouldn't wish either on anyone lol.

 

[OldManBeard]

I've never had a Land Rover but we've had three Pajeros before the Navara. There's no comparison, nor is a comparison fair because these machines are not in the same class, so we're comparing apples to pumpkins to cucumbers. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses and, budget allowing, we should chose which of them is the most appropriate for our needs. Nevertheless, had I not been on a tight budget I would very much have preferred to stick to the Pajero. It's vastly superior off-road and has the best turning circle in its class, unlike the Navara, which has the worst turning circle of anything I've ever driven. Still, the Navara will do what I need it to do and I'm getting too old to do any real hard-core off-roading anyway.

 

[KevinE]

I have to agree that they are very different vehicles The Pajero is much more comfortable & it does have a much better turning circle. But it surprises me that you'd prefer the Pajero off road to a Navara. We have one of each & I'd take the D22 over the Pajero almost every time when out in the sticks. Maybe it's because you have a D40? (no disrespect meant) I've managed to work out how to get the monocoque on the Pajero to ride the bumps without shaking the dash out onto our laps on heavily corrugated dirt roads. The D22 just does it. The Pajero is definitely a much, much more drivable car around town, but it has come at a cost for us. We have had the HBB accumulator issue (chirping under the bonnet) which was very hard to diagnose & exy to fix. Then we had the well known flashing centre diff lights on the dash issue happen on the 1st day of a trip. We were north of Burra, heading up to Marree/Oodnadatta/Eringa/Mt. Dare/Old Andado/Mac Clark Park/Santa Teresa/Alice when it happened. Drove home, switched everything into the D22 & off we went, no more dramas on that trip. It was the vacuum actuator under the air filter that caused the issue in the Pajero. Easy fix, but what a PITA. Then there was the trip where we were out between Windorah & Betoota in the Pajero & it started doing some extraordinarily weird stuff! Every time we'd stop for whatever reason, when we went to drive off again, the temp gauge went up to the red zone. If you know where we were, it's a tad remote for that kind of stuff to be happening. The weird is that every time it happened, I'd idle the car for a while & the temp came back down real quick. Happened every single time we stopped through Birdsville/Boulia/Plenty Hwy/Alice/Adelaide. It played some serious mind games with me lol. End result was faulty temp sensors, replaced in Adelaide after the trip. I could go on re the Pajero, but we've taken the D22 on the Gibb River road, Old Jim Jim Road, Oodnadatta track 3 times, Mt Dare twice, Birdsville Track, Strez Track twice, Cameron Corner, Old Andado, Mack Clark Park, Binns track , Lambert's Centre, Finke, Old Ghan Track, Chamber's Pillar, Palm Valley, Mereenie Loop, Dowling Track, Lorella Springs, Hells Gate, Roper Bar, Arkaroola twice, Lake Frome, Santa Teresa, Moolawatana........... Never had any problems with it whatsoever.

 

[OldManBeard]

But it surprises me that you'd prefer the Pajero off road to a Navara. We have one of each & I'd take the D22 over the Pajero almost every time when out in the sticks. Maybe it's because you have a D40? (no disrespect meant)

Disrespect all you like, I take no offence.

I've managed to work out how to get the monocoque on the Pajero to ride the bumps without shaking the dash out onto our laps on heavily corrugated dirt roads.

I should probably have mentioned that it's the older chassis Pajeros that I like. I reckon there's no place for monocoque off-road. Another big plus for the Pajeros is their LSD, which is the best I've ever come across, provided they're filled with the correct oil. I can't count the number of times others have become stuck in places where I can drive a Pajero with one wheel in the air. Like most makes and models, there's a knack to getting the best out of them. Regardless of whether it's myself or the wife driving, we've taken our Pajeros places where the gung-ho boys in their Cruisers and Patrols have backed away and taken the chicken track and that's without ever even having diff locks. One notable exception was where one bloke in his tricked out Cruiser thought that anywhere we could go he'd go easily. He was a bit shattered after rolling off the rocks we'd just casually driven over.

Problems I've noticed with my Navara include it being too long for proper off-road use and (standard) suspension that really doesn't work as well as it should to keep the wheels on the ground. Its articulation isn't much better than that of a Pajero but due to the extra length it's even less effective and it doesn't drive at all well on three wheels. I know there's a lot you can do to a Navara to make it a better off-roader but the same applies to the Pajero (and just about everything else out there). The only even remotely valid comparison is between stock models.

 

[Old.Tony]

^ If you still have a limited slip diff in your D40, try applying some handbrake when lifting one of the rear wheels. This will reduce spin in the lifted wheel.

The D40 does have another issue not listed above - reduced rampover. It's a consequence of the long wheelbase (which is also the reason for the poor turning circle). For those that don't know what that means, it's the clearance available going over a mound where the front wheels come down on the far side but the rear haven't yet come up the rise. Longer wheelbases can get caught on larger mounds than shorter wheelbase vehicles. I ripped the side steps off mine trying to go over a mound at the 2013 Muster in Qld.

Standard springs in any of these utes are going to be questionable for serious off-roading. They tend to supply flat springs because you get a softer, more car-like ride, but these can easily invert (and do, mine did fairly quickly). The trouble is, buying springs that won't invert induces a considerable lift (mine rose 85mm in the rear) which raises legality questions. On that score, I haven't been stopped once and queried about my lift, which might be partly because it's not that extreme, and partly because I don't drive like I want attention from the law.

 

[OldManBeard]

^ If you still have a limited slip diff in your D40, try applying some handbrake when lifting one of the rear wheels. This will reduce spin in the lifted wheel.

I'm well aware of and very proficient in the technique but not all limited slip diffs are of equal quality.

The D40 does have another issue not listed above - reduced rampover. It's a consequence of the long wheelbase (which is also the reason for the poor turning circle).

In addition to reduced ramp-over it also was a particularly poor approach angle, which admittedly is a pretty common trait of utes of that size. The poor turning circle can only partially be blamed on the wheelbase. Poor engineering must be held accountable for the worst of it. There are longer vehicles on the road with better turning circles. Quite simply, it not only could be much better, it should be much better.

For those that don't know what that means, it's the clearance available going over a mound where the front wheels come down on the far side but the rear haven't yet come up the rise. Longer wheelbases can get caught on larger mounds than shorter wheelbase vehicles. I ripped the side steps off mine trying to go over a mound at the 2013 Muster in Qld.

If you must have sidesteps on an off-road vehicle then they need to take the form of rock sliders. Pajero owners destroy their fair share of sidesteps as well.

Standard springs in any of these utes are going to be questionable for serious off-roading.

True enough but I'll argue that in standard form a Navara won't go where I can take a stock Pajero.

They tend to supply flat springs because you get a softer, more car-like ride, but these can easily invert (and do, mine did fairly quickly). The trouble is, buying springs that won't invert induces a considerable lift (mine rose 85mm in the rear) which raises legality questions. On that score, I haven't been stopped once and queried about my lift, which might be partly because it's not that extreme, and partly because I don't drive like I want attention from the law.

I'm surprised that yours lifted so much. I've just installed heavy duty springs to suit a constant 250 kg load on the rear of my Navara which should result in only a 35mm lift. I'll confirm that when I do the front end but that is postponed for now on account of breaking a finger while doing the rear. I really shouldn't do these jobs without having had a good sleep beforehand.

Your point about "I don't drive like I want attention from the law" is a good one. In contrast, there was a young bloke in a nearby suburb who couldn't quite fathom why the cops were always hounding him. Apart from always speeding, I suppose his plates wouldn't have helped. They read "sp33dy". An analogy with a bull and a red flag comes to mind. Anyway, those plates eventually went through the crusher, along with the rest of his car.

 

[Old.Tony]

I'm surprised that yours lifted so much. I've just installed heavy duty springs to suit a constant 250 kg load on the rear of my Navara which should result in only a 35mm lift.

I chose the ARB Dakar "dual rate" springs, for varying loads up to 300kg. Might be 400kg. Was a few years ago now, some of the old grey matter has lost its integrity. Not sure if it's caused by beer or age, but I'll continue to do both.

 

[OldManBeard]

I chose the ARB Dakar "dual rate" springs, for varying loads up to 300kg. Might be 400kg. Was a few years ago now, some of the old grey matter has lost its integrity. Not sure if it's caused by beer or age, but I'll continue to do both.

I no longer partake of alcohol but I'm very active in the getting old category.

I reckon we've perhaps taken this thread off-topic enough and I apologise to Daveo52 for doing so.

 

[KevinE]

Disrespect all you like, I take no offence.


I should probably have mentioned that it's the older chassis Pajeros that I like. I reckon there's no place for monocoque off-road (they work OK when you work out how to use them) Another big plus for the Pajeros is their LSD, which is the best I've ever come across, provided they're filled with the correct oil. I can't count the number of times others have become stuck in places where I can drive a Pajero with one wheel in the air. Like most makes and models, there's a knack to getting the best out of them (There is no LSD in our Pajero, it has traction control). Regardless of whether it's myself or the wife driving, we've taken our Pajeros places where the gung-ho boys in their Cruisers and Patrols have backed away and taken the chicken track and that's without ever even having diff locks. One notable exception was where one bloke in his tricked out Cruiser thought that anywhere we could go he'd go easily. He was a bit shattered after rolling off the rocks we'd just casually driven over.

Problems I've noticed with my Navara include it being too long for proper off-road use and (standard) suspension that really doesn't work as well as it should to keep the wheels on the ground. Its articulation isn't much better than that of a Pajero but due to the extra length it's even less effective and it doesn't drive at all well on three wheels. I know there's a lot you can do to a Navara to make it a better off-roader but the same applies to the Pajero (and just about everything else out there). The only even remotely valid comparison is between stock models.

I notice that you haven't addressed the reliability issues with a Pajero. Lets add the Radial fuel pump issue with Gen 3 diesel Pajero's = $5,000 to $6,000 to fix. The resistor issue in the dash that causes temp gauge irregularities. The companion shafts that pop out while towing, the rear door that sags after driving on corrugated dirt roads, the rear door failing to open after dust gets in the locking mechanism (what an absolute pain that is), the rear wheel alignment nuts seizing, the catalytic converters positioned around the exhaust manifolds & the auto trans causing cracking in the manifolds & overheating in the trans. Like I said, I could go on about the Pajero, but I've never had any of those issues in a Navara with well over 11 years of driving one. As I said above, we go scrub a lot & we have taken both the Pajero & the Navara out there. Ramp over has never been an issue with the Navara, but it almost was in the Pajero towing over sand dunes. It bellied out due to it's lower ground clearance over the sand dunes at Haddon Corner. Like I said, it's a very comfortable car around town & much more drivable in traffic than my D22. But when we're heading into the sticks, I'd take the D22 every time.