Heres why you NEED the EGR blanking and catchcan...

[joshman]

SEE THE PHOTOS!

I pulled my intake system apart today for a clean while I installed the provent catch can, and what I found... Shocked me and really drove home the benefit of BOTH a catch can and the EGR mod.

You can see all the muck that's built up in the intake manifold from the EGR system and combined with the blow-by from the PCV.

And all of this is what your engine is trying to run on. I also included a picture of it once i cleaned it out. What I would suggest is that instead of doing the blank mod on the EGR pipe like we usually do, take out the gasket that sits between the intake manifold and butterfly module(?) and blank this gasket. If I had the know how I'd pull the butterfly's out from inside and fill up the EGR side of it to make a nice smooth air intake.

Also, I figured out how the EGR and swirler system works.

 

[scooba_285]

jesus thats filthy, i cant see y they put egrs in if it just f$&@'s your engine in the long run

 

[ONLOCK]

Don't know if it really adds up to anything but I had a thought the other day that suggested that the oil passed through the intake from the rocker breather would also act to lube the valves

Any thoughts? Wasn't sure how much lubrication is in diesel itself, I know when running gas it's a good idea to run some sort of lubrication system for valves

 

[joshman]

Don't know if it really adds up to anything but I had a thought the other day that suggested that the oil passed through the intake from the rocker breather would also act to lube the valves

Any thoughts? Wasn't sure how much lubrication is in diesel itself, I know when running gas it's a good idea to run some sort of lubrication system for valves

I hadn't thought about that side of things, but if I had to choose between my valve running a bit dry and them having to pass this crap... I think I know what I'll choose.

 

[sparra04]

i need to get one installed
just got no fkn room
might have to settle for a small cheapie filled with steel wool
gees i miss my provent

 

[Old.Tony]

Sparra, how much room in front of your radiator (to the side near the left headlight) ?

That's where I'd put it, keep the can as cool as possible to maximise how much oil condenses in it.

I thought valve guides had an oil supply from the top, and there was a seal in the base of the valve guide that stopped the oil from entering the intake/exhaust ports? I can't see how much lubrication the stem would get in the exhaust stream otherwise, and one of the complaints about the Mishitibus Magna engine was the valve guide seals giving way and making the engine ingest oil (thus blowing blue smoke). I suspect this is also an issue with Hyundai Excels (I haven't seen one that doesn't smoke in a long while) and other little 4-banger buzz boxes that have the shit revved out of them just to get moving.

 

[joshman]

Yeah I was a bit worried when I popped the hood looking for a place to put it, I eventually found a suitable spot against the side wall, ran the drain out underneath the airbox into the wheel well

 

[d22dave]

Onlock the idea of lube for the valves with gas is on the combustion side, So diesel being the oily filthy stuff it is lubes the valves on the combustion side

 

[04SilverSTR]

Ewwwww yuk josh. Im all for the egr mod but not so keen on catch cans. We are not running 11ty million psi of boost in these motors for one and i reckon a little bit of oil through thr intack wont hurt things to much. If anything do some good.

Cheers
bryan

 

[joshman]

Ewwwww yuk josh. Im all for the egr mod but not so keen on catch cans. We are not running 11ty million psi of boost in these motors for one and i reckon a little bit of oil through thr intack wont hurt things to much. If anything do some good.

Cheers
bryan

My problem with oil through the intake, is that oil doesn't burn as readily as diesel, and doesn't compress too well... I dunno, it doesn't make good sense to me. I want nice clean, cool, dense, oxygen rich air in my intake, and nothing else.

If someone can give me a very good reason, with statistics/figures as to why letting oils through is a good thing, I'll consider their opinion.

 

[tweak'e]

What I would suggest is that instead of doing the blank mod on the EGR pipe like we usually do, take out the gasket that sits between the intake manifold and butterfly module(?) and blank this gasket. If I had the know how I'd pull the butterfly's out from inside and fill up the EGR side of it to make a nice smooth air intake.

Also, I figured out how the EGR and swirler system works.

the pics are much the norm, heaps on patrol forum on this.

take out the gasket that sits between the intake manifold and butterfly module(?) and blank this gasket.

what ever you do....DO NOT DO THIS !
this will cut off 50% of the airflow to the engine!

My problem with oil through the intake, is that oil doesn't burn as readily as diesel, and doesn't compress too well... I dunno, it doesn't make good sense to me. I want nice clean, cool, dense, oxygen rich air in my intake, and nothing else.

If someone can give me a very good reason, with statistics/figures as to why letting oils through is a good thing, I'll consider their opinion.

oil burns fairly well and has nothing to do with compression as such.

the problem with oil in the intake is that its unmetered fuel and it can burn before the fuel is injected which makes things run even hotter.

there is no need for oil in the intake, this bit about valves or turbo's needing oil for lube is BS.
think about this, most trucks (except for late models) ran open crank breathers. they had no oil going down the intake.

 

[joshman]

what ever you do....DO NOT DO THIS !
this will cut off 50% of the airflow to the engine!

how so? i thought the two "intakes" on the manifold were actually one for the EGR in and the other actually went down to the manifold proper and the cylinders. Under normal conditions, when the EGR operates, it closes the big butterfly, which forces the engine to swallow the exhaust gases coming up the dirty pipe. The smaller butterfly in the 'clean' intake is just a control butterfly for the intake as a whole, thus thats the only one pipe that actually puts air into the manifold. and so blanking off the other gasket will just act the same as the current popular blanking method, but allow an easier to clean and maintain install.

can anyone shed some light on the actual piping for the intake system?

 

[Old.Tony]

I'm looking at the D22's EGR system and it looks like there's a gasket on each side of the EGR cooler.

This is the section between the exhaust and intake manifold that has two rubber hoses coming out of it. The manual shows a gasket on each end of this section.

What I'd do if I had a D22? I'd try sticking a 1mm-thick stainless steel blanking plate in place of either of the gaskets on either side of the EGR cooler.

No EGR flow = no EGR, doesn't matter what happens around the butterfly, if there's nothing coming through the pipe the rest of the system is unemployed.

 

[joshman]

very true Tony, and while the conventional blanking method will still work, i'm now looking at improvements to the air flow through to the cylinders. by "taking out" that second pipe altogether - by filling in and smoothing down the side walls, and removing the big butterfly, to create a nice clean intake with little obstruction.

and by having this massive 'cavern' off to the side, i'm thinking that maybe the air turbulence might draw a bit of the crap out of there and into the intake system.

 

[tweak'e]

how so? i thought the two "intakes" on the manifold were actually one for the EGR in and the other actually went down to the manifold proper and the cylinders. Under normal conditions, when the EGR operates, it closes the big butterfly, which forces the engine to swallow the exhaust gases coming up the dirty pipe. The smaller butterfly in the 'clean' intake is just a control butterfly for the intake as a whole, thus thats the only one pipe that actually puts air into the manifold. and so blanking off the other gasket will just act the same as the current popular blanking method, but allow an easier to clean and maintain install.

can anyone shed some light on the actual piping for the intake system?

the intake manifold is a dual manifold. each half feeds one of two inlet ports. ie each half manifold feeds 4 inlet ports. (remember its 16v head so 8 inlet valves)

the egr inlet is on one manifold which is why it was so dirty. that manifold mixes the egr with air and feeds 4 of the inlet valves.
the other manifold has the swirl valve and that feeds straight air to the other 4 inlet valves.

the main big butterfly normally partly closes which drops the boost pressure down so exhaust pressure is far higher and more egr flows in.

the swirl butterfly shuts off the 2nd manifold, this cuts off 50% of the airflow, which in effect doubles the amount of egr going in. its only used up to a certain rpm range.

 

[joshman]

so what your saying is that really i should pull off the entire manifold and give it a really good clean to properly clean this crap up?

its one thing to block the EGR, but i imagine it's a good thing to actually clean up the mess that its left behind.

are there any figures on performance gains from performing an intake clean?

 

[tweak'e]

yes you should pull the whole manifold off and clean. however that still leaves the ports.

not sure on performance figures but a few comments on that they (patrols) go much better after the clean out.

if you want to give everything a really good clean out, fit a water injection system.

pic is inlet valves, bit out of focus but you can see the crap.

 

[joshman]

ok....so how much work is involved with pulling off the intake manifold? all i got to was the throttle body on sunday.... i wonder if i can knock it over in a day? what precautions would you recommend for pulling this apart? and how would you go about cleaning the crap out? i'm looking to this vehicle for a long term ownership, so i want it running right. (plus it gives me something to do!)

 

[tweak'e]

sorry don't know what it would take to pull the intake off. only hard bit i can think off at the mo is if any injection pipes are in the way.

solvents and bottle brush? also oven cleaner works well just do not leave it on to long!

that just leaves intake ports. only thing i can think of is water/meth injection system. someone did mention solvent you pour down the intake with the engine running. however i do not know if they are safe for use on a diesel.

 

[joshman]

Hmmm, from the service manual it looks like moving the wiring look out of the way and a ton of bolts to get the manifold off. I reckon I could make up something using cue-tips, of a lint less rag.

Also a bit of a search puts petrol being an excellent solvent for the crap, but then clean it out with a proper manifold/carby cleaner maybe?

I might look into it during the week and attempt it this weekend if I've nothing else to do.