Have a steep driveway.....a word of caution

[Pete22]

I have a relatively steep driveway and after parking with the rear of the vehicle downhill overnight the other night I learnt something new about the car. I've been doing some maintenance on the storage unit and auxiliary power supply etc that I have built into the tub and was parked rear into my garage to ease access. On completion of the day's work it was dark o'clock so I left the car where it was overnight. The next morning (still dark) I started up to head off on a trip up to Canberra.....and got as far as.......................the top of my driveway before the engine dies.

Tried cranking again.......no life. Again....still no life. So I'm trying to think what the fook had happened....no warning lights, and a scan for fault codes shows nothing. Popped the bonnet and reached in for the priming bulb and yep it has that feel about it......you know - no fuel in it. Give it half a dozen pumps and get that nice firm feel....turn the engine over and it fires into life.

Note to self: "Don't park the fooken ute arse end down hill overnight in future as the fuel will drain back to the tank."

 

[YBOD]

Interesting.....I have a pretty steep drive too and have found the same happened once before, although in my case it was left for a day arse down. When it wouldn't start I took the handbrake off and rolled it backward into the garage with the intent of taking a looking in the morning. Low and behold next morning (on the level over night) it started fine so thought nothing more of it.

For future reference where is the priming bulb?

 

[nathand22]

Interesting.....I have a pretty steep drive too and have found the same happened once before, although in my case it was left for a day arse down. When it wouldn't start I took the handbrake off and rolled it backward into the garage with the intent of taking a looking in the morning. Low and behold next morning (on the level over night) it started fine so thought nothing more of it.

For future reference where is the priming bulb?

Depends on what model, most are on top of the fuel filter and are flat round plastic disc like plunger, others like with my spain built 2012 ST are under the fuel filter and are like a rubber bulb like you would see with a small outboard boat motors fuel cell.

 

[Pete22]

Interesting.....I have a pretty steep drive too and have found the same happened once before, although in my case it was left for a day arse down. When it wouldn't start I took the handbrake off and rolled it backward into the garage with the intent of taking a looking in the morning. Low and behold next morning (on the level over night) it started fine so thought nothing more of it.

For future reference where is the priming bulb?

Pretty much what Nathan22 says....I believe that all Spanish built D40s fitted with the YD25 engine have a different filter system to the D22 fitted with the same engine. The D40 has the bulb under the filter but the D22 has the primer as an integral part of the filter housing....and like Nathan22 says it is a flat pump thingy on top of the housing. In fact this is the same filter (ie the one that's fitted to the 2.5 D22) that I had fitted in my Patrol.

 

[bods]

I think you'll find it wasn't that the fuel drained back to the tank, but more that the pickup in the tank was sucking up air so when the filter ran out of fuel it died. There have been a few threads with other people having the same issue with the nose facing uphill. The pickup must be towards the front of the tank so as the fuel gets low if you park at a certain angle it ends up sucking air...

 

[Old.Tony]

I think you'll find it wasn't that the fuel drained back to the tank, but more that the pickup in the tank was sucking up air so when the filter ran out of fuel it died. There have been a few threads with other people having the same issue with the nose facing uphill. The pickup must be towards the front of the tank so as the fuel gets low if you park at a certain angle it ends up sucking air...

This would be my assumption as well. Fuel is supposed to drain back to the tank via the return line but that's on the far side of the pump. Fuel is supposed to stay in the line between the tank and the filter, and unless the pickup (about a third of the way back from the front of the tank if I recall) is exposed and an air bubble travels up the line, the fuel should remain there.

If you did the same thing with a full tank of fuel you'd not notice it.

I also think I recall something about someone 4WDing with a small amount of fuel in the tank and had the vehicle stall from uncovering the pickup. When we went out @ Nundle I made sure we had plenty of fuel. The Long Ranger fuel tank actually paid for itself on this trip: because it is consumed first, as far as my car was concerned, its fuel tank remained full for the entire off-road expedition.

 

[Pete22]

I think you'll find it wasn't that the fuel drained back to the tank, but more that the pickup in the tank was sucking up air so when the filter ran out of fuel it died. There have been a few threads with other people having the same issue with the nose facing uphill. The pickup must be towards the front of the tank so as the fuel gets low if you park at a certain angle it ends up sucking air...

I made the assumption I did because I'd just filled the tank....there was >150ltrs in a 150ltr tank....ie the fuel was right up to the top of the filler point so I don't see how it could possibly be sucking air. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[nakedape]

You've either 1) got a very small leak in your system or 2) there's a non-return valve not working. I too park arse down on a steep drive & have no issues (touch wood).

 

[Pete22]

You've either 1) got a very small leak in your system or 2) there's a non-return valve not working. I too park arse down on a steep drive & have no issues (touch wood).

Went looking for an NRV in the fuel system (in the workshop manual that I have) and damned if I can find one. Being an aircraft engineer by profession I'm used to these being fitted in both the engine and airframe fuel systems but buggered if'n I can find on in the Nav's system. Maybe there is one integral with the filter assembly but it's not obvious to me - might be getting rusty in my old age.

 

[nakedape]

Went looking for an NRV in the fuel system (in the workshop manual that I have) and damned if I can find one. Being an aircraft engineer by profession I'm used to these being fitted in both the engine and airframe fuel systems but buggered if'n I can find on in the Nav's system. Maybe there is one integral with the filter assembly but it's not obvious to me - might be getting rusty in my old age.

I've never seen the beasty, but a fuel injection specialist named it as a potential cause for a problem I had years ago (turned out to be a tiny air leak). Maybe call by a specialist workshop and ask the question. Also, do a search on here for threads detailing checking for air leaks. Good luck!

 

[Pete22]

I've never seen the beasty, but a fuel injection specialist named it as a potential cause for a problem I had years ago (turned out to be a tiny air leak). Maybe call by a specialist workshop and ask the question. Also, do a search on here for threads detailing checking for air leaks. Good luck!

Having another think about this, the injectors by design are NRVs and there is most likely one designed into the injector pump.....but elsewhere in the system....??? Help OldTony

 

[Old.Tony]

I was thinking the seal in the fuel filter. It takes the smallest misalignment to cause a leak and because it's the suction side, it won't cause any problems when the engine's running.

It HAS to be on the suction side of the pump and it's likely to be high up - that's the filter, or the hoses around it. I've heard of one instance of the primer bulb cracking, so have a close look over that too.

 

[Pete22]

I was thinking the seal in the fuel filter. It takes the smallest misalignment to cause a leak and because it's the suction side, it won't cause any problems when the engine's running.

It HAS to be on the suction side of the pump and it's likely to be high up - that's the filter, or the hoses around it. I've heard of one instance of the primer bulb cracking, so have a close look over that too.

Checked every part of the fuel system and then some and nothing found that could explain this problem. Wondering if anyone else who has a steep driveway could run an overnight test with the arse end of the car facing downhill.......just to see if this might be a design thing.

 

[JASON-D40]

parked mine on a steep driveway arse end down for every night for 12 months not one issue, HOWEVER I have had the issue plenty of times parked with the nose down and arse up. When around 1/4 tank and parked in that manner it would run out of fuel and stall. I have had the car back to Nissan twice and it still does it.

 

[YBOD]

Was up at Tommys Rock on the Old Glenn Innes road on Thursday and getting low on fuel (display told me I had 78km to empty). It is about 4km of steep down hill back to the road and about 3km of the way down the wife wanted to stop for a photo. With the engine running while she took the shot the engine splutter to a stop in less than half a minute. Could only restart after I had coasted (in neutral) to a flat spot and eventually restarted. Not exactly the same scenario of over night standing arse up but similar.

I wonder if its possible to rotate the tank through 180 degrees so the fuel line comes from the front of the tank rather than rear.

 

[killerdriver]

This happens to me as well, front down hill, arse up hill, wont start when under a quarter of a tank.

I always park arse down hill now and Ive never had a problem

 

[4BYFOR]

+1 on that had to jump out and prime the filter to get it started again

 

[JASON-D40]

mine does that also. Been back to Nissan twice, still does it.

Was up at Tommys Rock on the Old Glenn Innes road on Thursday and getting low on fuel (display told me I had 78km to empty). It is about 4km of steep down hill back to the road and about 3km of the way down the wife wanted to stop for a photo. With the engine running while she took the shot the engine splutter to a stop in less than half a minute. Could only restart after I had coasted (in neutral) to a flat spot and eventually restarted. Not exactly the same scenario of over night standing arse up but similar.

I wonder if its possible to rotate the tank through 180 degrees so the fuel line comes from the front of the tank rather than rear.

 

[Pete22]

I wonder if its possible to rotate the tank through 180 degrees so the fuel line comes from the front of the tank rather than rear.

Rotating the tank wouldn't do the trick for me as I have a 150ltr aftermarket tank. But the tank isn't the problem in my case as it was full to the brim when this happened to me. Never had it happen before in any situation.

 

[YBOD]

Thinking about it a bit more probably wouldn't want to rotate anyway because then you loose juice on upholds rather than down. At least a downhill you can coast to the bottom, if it was up hill and you lost power you got to reverse down with now power.