Goodbye Navara!

[NavaraNavara]

What will happen if they shutdown all Navara plants in Barcelona?

 

[Old.Tony]

They'll build them in Thailand. The plant is a cooperation between Mitsubishi and Nissan and they're already pumping out "cross breeds".

The new Mitsubishi Outlander, for instance, is supposed to be built on an X-Trail chassis.

I've taken the 2022 Triton for a drive. I took it back and walked away, it doesn't do anything much more than my 2009 D40 does (except it looked newer).

 

[Camionpilot]

Spanish plant was shut down last year , apart from the Thai built ones apparently [ a rumour ..??] is that they will build them in south africa ..!!

 

[NavaraNavara]

From what i understood, by 2030 europe will get ride of every diesel engine from its territory.

 

[NavaraNavara]

They will do implicitly by making your life impossible with your diesel truck, no parts, no maintainance ...etc

 

[Phunk]

They will do implicitly by making your life impossible with your diesel truck, no parts, no maintainance ...etc

I'd love to see how far they get when all those B doubles can't deliver food to supermarkets...

 

[Old.Tony]

I'm also looking forward to having to pay a lot more for diesel. We're already paying $2.40 per litre here ($10.80 per gallon), I expect the oil companies will really start to reach into our pockets and send fuel prices up over $5 per litre.

That makes it a $750 fill for my Nav ... you watch how fast I buy a Rivian if that happens.

As for freight ... Tesla have released their truck, does 800km on a charge, tested it recently weighing over 80,000lbs (about 36,000kg). Charges at 1megawatt, out-pulls conventional trucks with ease.

 

[Phunk]

I'm also looking forward to having to pay a lot more for diesel. We're already paying $2.40 per litre here ($10.80 per gallon), I expect the oil companies will really start to reach into our pockets and send fuel prices up over $5 per litre.

That makes it a $750 fill for my Nav ... you watch how fast I buy a Rivian if that happens.

As for freight ... Tesla have released their truck, does 800km on a charge, tested it recently weighing over 80,000lbs (about 36,000kg). Charges at 1megawatt, out-pulls conventional trucks with ease.

Funny you mention this, I was watching an 'Engineering explained' video on the Tesla trucks yesterday and what set of circumstances need to be met for the 500 mile range to be viable.

Regardless, was very interesting.

My issue I have with the 2030 is that if they are planning to stop selling diesels, that's one thing.. but forcing fleets to change ALL of their trucks by 2030? I don't see that happening.

We (worldwide) aren't anywhere near a level of supporting an all Electric society of cars.

Hell, I seen another video the other day of someone trying to charge their Tesla in the UK and was still costing them 50 pound to do it at a charge station.

Engineering Explained -

 

[Camionpilot]

News item on msn of a transporter load of new evs burning on the motor way near Nottingham [ UK ] today ...!
Also Switzerland has stopped evs [ at certain times ] from recharging because there infrastructure cannot cope ..!!!!!!

Volvo have developed a new electric FH truck ....one problem only 3 charging points available in Europe .

 

[YowieMountain]

Funny you mention this, I was watching an 'Engineering explained' video on the Tesla trucks yesterday and what set of circumstances need to be met for the 500 mile range to be viable.

Regardless, was very interesting.

My issue I have with the 2030 is that if they are planning to stop selling diesels, that's one thing.. but forcing fleets to change ALL of their trucks by 2030? I don't see that happening.

We (worldwide) aren't anywhere near a level of supporting an all Electric society of cars.

Hell, I seen another video the other day of someone trying to charge their Tesla in the UK and was still costing them 50 pound to do it at a charge station.

Engineering Explained -

Beat me to posting that one......love that engineering channel!
The charging requirements will never allow us to efficiently create grid power........unless we go nuclear power on a grand scale overnight, which creates a massive waste problem.
I love the idea of electric motor torque at every wheel, however the energy mass (KWH/battery weight) inherent in making such a vehicle useful to Australian travel distances is highly restrictive. I personally think the alleged 2025 electric Navara with on board diesel generator is the most useable idea yet.
Decreases weight by needing less battery storage, limits the onus on the power grid by providing on board generator motor and decreases current diesel requirements.
I personally do not buy into the "greener" marketing as I am aware of the intensive energy needs of mining, refining and transporting resources needed on a grand scale. Then look at the environmental damage inherent in mining resources such as copper, lithium, rare earths, etc - it makes coal fired power look downright environmental and efficient!
If pollution reduction is the real goal - lets go back to horses, mules and oxen!!

 

[Edward.Hawkins]

Beat me to posting that one......love that engineering channel!
The charging requirements will never allow us to efficiently create grid power........unless we go nuclear power on a grand scale overnight, which creates a massive waste problem.
I love the idea of electric motor torque at every wheel, however the energy mass (KWH/battery weight) inherent in making such a vehicle useful to Australian travel distances is highly restrictive. I personally think the alleged 2025 electric Navara with on board diesel generator is the most useable idea yet.
Decreases weight by needing less battery storage, limits the onus on the power grid by providing on board generator motor and decreases current diesel requirements.
I personally do not buy into the "greener" marketing as I am aware of the intensive energy needs of mining, refining and transporting resources needed on a grand scale. Then look at the environmental damage inherent in mining resources such as copper, lithium, rare earths, etc - it makes coal fired power look downright environmental and efficient!
If pollution reduction is the real goal - lets go back to horses, mules and oxen!!

You have mentioned the mining of the raw materials

 

[Edward.Hawkins]

You have mentioned the mining of the raw materials

Sorry, I accidentally hit the send button.
Raw materials for the batteries. One of the main materils is of course Cobalt.
Most of the cobalt is mined in the Republic of Congo. It is mined under extremely poor conditions, children are used in condition that many around the world would call slave labour.
Also, cobalt like many of the other metal are highly toxic, so the disposal of lithium batteries is possibly a future environmental issue.
Finally, like all batteries, heat has a strong impact on the life expectancy of the battery. So, driving around in cooler climates is ok, but using thes

 

[Boogieboots]

I read an interesting article yesterday regarding smaller electric delivery trucks coming to Oz. The company involved was planning on using them for night time freight in noise curfew areas, where they could be charged during the day using excess generation that would be exported to the grid for bugger all return.
This is some great outside the box thinking

 

[Boogieboots]

Beat me to posting that one......love that engineering channel!
The charging requirements will never allow us to efficiently create grid power........unless we go nuclear power on a grand scale overnight, which creates a massive waste problem.
I love the idea of electric motor torque at every wheel, however the energy mass (KWH/battery weight) inherent in making such a vehicle useful to Australian travel distances is highly restrictive. I personally think the alleged 2025 electric Navara with on board diesel generator is the most useable idea yet.
Decreases weight by needing less battery storage, limits the onus on the power grid by providing on board generator motor and decreases current diesel requirements.
I personally do not buy into the "greener" marketing as I am aware of the intensive energy needs of mining, refining and transporting resources needed on a grand scale. Then look at the environmental damage inherent in mining resources such as copper, lithium, rare earths, etc - it makes coal fired power look downright environmental and efficient!
If pollution reduction is the real goal - lets go back to horses, mules and oxen!!

One of my favourite EE videos was how Jason showed that in pure storage capacity, it was cheaper to buy a F150 lightning than the equivalent 8?(I think) Tesla power walls...And you also get a truck!

We are due to add around 25 GW of renewable energy to the Australian market this year (increasing year on year), which will way exceed the added demand from EVs for the near term. As large coal generation capacity drops off the government and regulators need to ensure we are adding more storage and more smart charging infrastructure. If everyone with an EV plugs in to charge at knock off time the grid will fall into conniptions and start frothing at the mouth. Smart charging that brings power into batteries at low demand times early in the morning will help stabilise the grid and spread demand more evenly.

If we were to go nuclear, we do have some time to move but the CSIRO say that more renewables will be faster and cheaper.
As for storage, here is an interesting solution from an Aussie channel Engineering With Rosie. This is an Australian company based in Newcastle if I recall

 

[gazza414]

I'm also looking forward to having to pay a lot more for diesel. We're already paying $2.40 per litre here ($10.80 per gallon), I expect the oil companies will really start to reach into our pockets and send fuel prices up over $5 per litre.

That makes it a $750 fill for my Nav ... you watch how fast I buy a Rivian if that happens.

As for freight ... Tesla have released their truck, does 800km on a charge, tested it recently weighing over 80,000lbs (about 36,000kg). Charges at 1megawatt, out-pulls conventional trucks with ease.

36tonne is really nothing these days...we have 2,300 trucks come into my workplace every day and at 100tonne a piece... Diesel trucks will always have a place..plus LIPO tech is at an end

 

[Old.Tony]

Oh so many points raised LOL ...

Ok, yes 36T isn't a lot but the really vital point is that it's a start. And that's what we need.

The grid is simply not going to cope, period. If you convert the amount of fuel purchased at a service station into kWh (1 litre of petrol = 9.1kWh) you'll quickly see that each servo is going to melt into slag before lunchtime, and if it's the start of a holiday period that servo is going to melt before the fog lifts in the morning.

Not only does the grid need to be upgraded but we need significant extra generation. We are planning the power for our next house (we're moving in a couple of years' time, planning the house now). We need about 15kWh of stored energy to run the house in winter, and 20kWh for summer. At the moment we're looking at a 40kWh hydrogen battery.

Then comes the EV. With a typical EV we'd look at 100kWh required (not every day, thankfully). We'll need 2 more of those 40kWh batteries at least and at $35,000 a pop it's a HUGE investment, one that we are carefully considering.

Now do this on a service station that has to supply 100kWh per car. 10 cars makes 1gigawatt-hour and if it reaches 1.21GW you know we're heading to 1955 straight away.

The grid can't do that. Yet.

Microgeneration will help but you need really powerful generators if everyone's using an EV. It's serious ****. Nuclear is an option - hell, an old LA class sub's reactor can produce around 26MW which ought to work ok for small rural towns and they don't need refuelling for 25 years. The S9G reactor in a Virginia class is supposed to deliver over 200MW of power and you could probably use these either in a distributed fashion across suburbia or in a single area with dozens of them set up and heavy transmission lines used to send the power in (might be more acceptable to those that don't like their kids glowing in the dark).

It's inevitable. EVs will take over. Australia's charging infrastructure is not there yet (ok, it's a joke in some places) but it's improving and will need to keep improving to meet demand.

 

[Boogieboots]

Oh so many points raised LOL ...

Ok, yes 36T isn't a lot but the really vital point is that it's a start. And that's what we need.

The grid is simply not going to cope, period. If you convert the amount of fuel purchased at a service station into kWh (1 litre of petrol = 9.1kWh) you'll quickly see that each servo is going to melt into slag before lunchtime, and if it's the start of a holiday period that servo is going to melt before the fog lifts in the morning.

Not only does the grid need to be upgraded but we need significant extra generation. We are planning the power for our next house (we're moving in a couple of years' time, planning the house now). We need about 15kWh of stored energy to run the house in winter, and 20kWh for summer. At the moment we're looking at a 40kWh hydrogen battery.

Then comes the EV. With a typical EV we'd look at 100kWh required (not every day, thankfully). We'll need 2 more of those 40kWh batteries at least and at $35,000 a pop it's a HUGE investment, one that we are carefully considering.

Now do this on a service station that has to supply 100kWh per car. 10 cars makes 1gigawatt-hour and if it reaches 1.21GW you know we're heading to 1955 straight away.

The grid can't do that. Yet.

Microgeneration will help but you need really powerful generators if everyone's using an EV. It's serious ****. Nuclear is an option - hell, an old LA class sub's reactor can produce around 26MW which ought to work ok for small rural towns and they don't need refuelling for 25 years. The S9G reactor in a Virginia class is supposed to deliver over 200MW of power and you could probably use these either in a distributed fashion across suburbia or in a single area with dozens of them set up and heavy transmission lines used to send the power in (might be more acceptable to those that don't like their kids glowing in the dark).

It's inevitable. EVs will take over. Australia's charging infrastructure is not there yet (ok, it's a joke in some places) but it's improving and will need to keep improving to meet demand.

Dead right Tony. The thing is that all but the apartment dwellers will be charging at home most of the time, so I can only wonder how the future will pan out for service stations, though they have quite a few years left yet. I have been watching LPG disappear from the servos in WA continuously now since the taxi fleets all went hybrid. Our gas Dunnydore will be replaced with an EV in the next year or so if all goes well

 

[Old.Tony]

Dead right Tony. The thing is that all but the apartment dwellers will be charging at home most of the time, so I can only wonder how the future will pan out for service stations, though they have quite a few years left yet. I have been watching LPG disappear from the servos in WA continuously now since the taxi fleets all went hybrid. Our gas Dunnydore will be replaced with an EV in the next year or so if all goes well

I saw a Tesla pull into a service station today.

It's my thought that the franchise owners will install electric charging points so they can meet that need too, and that this may have already begun.

 

[Boogieboots]

Yeah BP are rolling them out now. But even if I charge at home I will be stopping at the servo in the morning to feed my iced coffee addiction

Edit: Just realised you bumped me over 100 on the reaction-o-meter Tony! Onya

 

[Old.Tony]

Yeah BP are rolling them out now. But even if I charge at home I will be stopping at the servo in the morning to feed my iced coffee addiction

Edit: Just realised you bumped me over 100 on the reaction-o-meter Tony! Onya

We bought ourselves a Jura Z10 coffee machine which can do the cold shot for iced coffee. I haven't tried that yet, but we're now going through 3x the milk each day compared to before buying the machine, mostly because when it makes a latte for my wife, it's 45ml of espresso shot and the rest is milk & milk foam (which it does perfectly).

I'll have to try the cold shot soon. No time at the moment, Christmas is approaching fast, I've got a caravan to prepare for a trip out west, Christmas lunch to organise the cooking for (and I have to make souvlaki) and Supercars just accepted my application for working at the Newcastle 500 (I'm already going to the 12 Hour).

I haven't received any info about the 6 Hour at Easter but I'll throw my name into that as well. We've only just come back from Challenge Bathurst, which is part of the reason why I have been a bit scarce around here. They even put me in their promo video for officials (no, I'm not the guy in the orange jacket).



For those who have considered a trip up the Bylong Valley Way (we were using this road as a shortcut to Bathurst) - don't. We were turned away to a less-damaged road towards Mudgee adding a fair bit to the journey and taking us through road that had been so badly cratered I was looking for Neil Armstrong's landing site - and this was supposed to be in better condition than Bylong!!