Death from heatwaves to rise, "Without Emission cuts"

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Good stuff.

This what I have been hoping for, a debate.

Its all guess work this stuff.

People are smart. Not that smart to think we can change the Climate.

Thats my opinion anyway.
 
You, and everyone else, is about to pay a Carbon Tax based on a "what if".

Have a read of this:

http://www.lavoisier.com.au/articles/greenhouse-science/climate-change/longversionfinal.pdf
We live by what ifs everyday. What if i crash my car or someone steals it... most of us have our car insured. Most of us have some kind of insurance on our house. The chance of your house burning down is remote but the conciquences are huge.
So this Ray Evans is a climotologist? Has his paper been peer reviewed? That sort of thing is like listening to someone in the front bar of the pub.
So taking out little insurance against such catistrophic events is prudent.
And yes it cost more for energy, as Gillard in a rare moment of honesty pointed out "that is is the point" nothing changes behaviour like price and this is the basis for a price on carbon. Us alone will not make much of a difference but it's designed to take a lead, to make a cultural shift on the way we go about things. The tax scales will be more favourable if you use your head a about it you may well come out in front. If is going to hurt anybody it will be the high income high energy consuming housholds and I'm not going to loose to much sleep over that.
 
We live by what ifs everyday. to much sleep over

na, sorry..I dont live that way...if I lived that way i may as well neck myself now...
one eg...everyone on both sides of my family gets and or eventuly dies from cancer.... should i have necked myself ages ago or keep going till the day i drop dead from it.
You guys are kidding yourselves if ya gonna live by "what if" and need to see someone about it
 
Totally agree
Climate change is BS, the earth has been heating and cooling for hundreds of years, it runs in a 25 odd year cycle, we are right at the peak of a heating cycle, this is going to work perfectly for the government, as it wil start to cool on its own again and the government will give themselves high 5's and talk about how good they are. This has been proven and the government still wont back down, they have believed their lie for so long now they thinks its the truth. I'm sick of the BS they feed the us and media with every day. Why cant we just get someone that is going to tell the truth? They need to cut the crap and say it as it is.
I still find it funny that they say we are putting to much carbon and pollution into the air, but every time a volcano erupts it spews more carbon into the air than we do. Our effort to stop climate change is not going to do a thing as long as volcano's continue to exist.


Have you noticed all the volcanoes on earth erupting every minute of the day 24/7, everyday since time began????
I sure as hell havent.
 
Ok but how do you live?
I live a fairly simple life myself, I really believe it's the key to happyness. Cést Sera is good up to a point but of course there is some sort of ifs in life. It's not like weré thinking about them all day. Far from it but say if your house does burn down, do put it down to- oh well that's just fate. It may well be but some sort of risk managment even hazard recognition doesn't go astray.
 
well i dont care for a carbon tax, I really dont care about the global warming debate cause its just tit for tat..i believe what I believe and I'm sticking to it, all the gubmints fuck us over,
as do the privitised power Co's that own our utilities that should never have been sold off,
STOP immigration and let the ADF live fire practice on the illegal junks up north,
I'll drink whatever beer i like despite what's "fashionable", I live in a bushfire prone area thats had a major fire every 10 years or so and will continue to do so, and I'm not moving
and just general all round anarchy, am not a sheep and so on, etc ,
life goes on, I try not to get messed up in all the everday BS that goes on everywhere,
and dont fall for all the propaganda that gets thrown around continually.
 
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Climate change is not related at all to the carbon tax.

The carbon tax is what it is... another tax. Nothing to do with climate change.
 
So this Ray Evans is a climotologist? Has his paper been peer reviewed? That sort of thing is like listening to someone in the front bar of the pub.

yep,

and,

not to mention
capitalist propaganda
 

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Climate change is not related at all to the carbon tax.

The carbon tax is what it is... another tax. Nothing to do with climate change.

its designed though to cut emmissions, thus slowing the effects of global warming and reducing the threat of global warming if one is on that side of the fence
 
its designed though to cut emmissions, thus slowing the effects of global warming and reducing the threat of global warming if one is on that side of the fence
Yep your right. Only catch is there is no other side of the fence the evidence is overwelhming.
It not just another tax Brad if anything it will reduce overall consumption contary to what most goverments around the world usually want you to do, that is- Shutup and consume.
 
I don't like political arguments and generally try to stay away from them, because if I could successfully argue that one side of politics is screwing us in this direction, as soon as the other side gets in, we're bent over and screwed from their way anyway. Political arguments are NEVER about winning, they only ever seem to be about how bad we're being screwed by those in the hot seat at the time.

While I am not sure the "carbon price" is the best way to go forward, it's at least a step in the general direction the WORLD needs to take. It might hurt, I've every confidence that those who have it within their power to make it hurt will do so to the best of their ability.

This means energy companies will look at it as a gilded gift horse and they'll ride it as hard and as far as they can. Using this they'll ramp up electricity prices far beyond what it's actually costing them, turn over a motza for their shareholders, take home ridiculously large bonus payments while the average Joe in the street has to work nights scrubbing dunnies in McDonalds just to pay for ONE household bill.

It sucks. I hope someone in government has balls that are big and hairy enough to put a watchdog on those assholes that THEY put into power by selling off the utilities in the first place. I know the companies will hand over cash left and right for the watchdog to turn a blind eye, but hopefully they can maintain some independence.

As for the effectiveness of what it does for our environment - every time I drive towards Sydney and see the brown haze over the city I wonder to myself how the people beneath can breathe - and Sydney doesn't have it bad, there are cities far worse.

Someone has to lead the world on this, and I'm of two minds on what to say about it - I don't know whether to say "Why the hell do WE have to be the first" or "Hey look, we're leading the world again!"

The issue there is whether or not what is being done is the right first step. I'm not sure it is. But I AM sure that a step needed to be taken, and that doing something to get industry to manufacture things with less pollutants can only make things healthier for all of us. Whether this is the right step or not I guess we'll see.
 
I'd like to comment on the article listed in the first post as well. As we all know, much of journalism is just a story sensationalised. Views are put forward that are intended to sway the viewer/reader one way or the other. Experts are sought for their confirmation that the impending disaster is about to strike.

I can't help but remember the Y2K fiasco. I distinctly recall a meeting I was demanded to attend by the head of the firm I was working with at the time, who had been called by a personal friend of theirs and told that unless they employ ABC Pty Ltd to "Y2K-proof" their systems, they'd lose all of their data and all of their business.

I also recall the look of horror on their face as I changed the clock on their workstation to 23:59:55 on 31/12/1999 and began counting down. I even made a loud "BOO!" at the appropriate time and enjoyed the shudders and jumps as the entire room of the head honchos flinched expecting the computer to detonate on the desk.

As we all know, it was smoke and mirrors. The ONLY thing that went wrong was a file management program began picking up the year as "100" because that was the next year after "99".

I do NOT believe the world is going to end unless we pay a carbon price. I do think we're damaging the world and it's going to take time to recover - and we should take some steps to help it along.

I think there'll also be more motor accidents due to hotter pavement impairing the grip between tyres and bitumen. I believe that higher ambient temperatures will cause paint to powder & flake more rapidly, and being inhaled by passers-by we'll end up with the next wave of people suffering from diseases like pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis (that's dust on the lungs, normally suffered by miners).

I'm not going to evangelise that and make it seem like every man and his dog is going to need a portable (solar powered) respirator with a PCU (Personal Cooling Unit) attached. That's just bullshit. It's picking something that WILL happen to an extraordinary FEW people and trying to make EVERYONE think it's going to happen to them.

The media really has a lot to answer for. They're preparing more companies to make more bucks selling solutions for problems that are likely to affect only a very, very small percentage of the population. Fine, protect those people, but piss off scaring the shit out of everyone else.

Just like the Y2k "bug".
 
I don't like political arguments and generally try to stay away from them, because if I could successfully argue that one side of politics is screwing us in this direction, as soon as the other side gets in, we're bent over and screwed from their way anyway. Political arguments are NEVER about winning, they only ever seem to be about how bad we're being screwed by those in the hot seat at the time.

While I am not sure the "carbon price" is the best way to go forward, it's at least a step in the general direction the WORLD needs to take. It might hurt, I've every confidence that those who have it within their power to make it hurt will do so to the best of their ability.

This means energy companies will look at it as a gilded gift horse and they'll ride it as hard and as far as they can. Using this they'll ramp up electricity prices far beyond what it's actually costing them, turn over a motza for their shareholders, take home ridiculously large bonus payments while the average Joe in the street has to work nights scrubbing dunnies in McDonalds just to pay for ONE household bill.

It sucks. I hope someone in government has balls that are big and hairy enough to put a watchdog on those assholes that THEY put into power by selling off the utilities in the first place. I know the companies will hand over cash left and right for the watchdog to turn a blind eye, but hopefully they can maintain some independence.

As for the effectiveness of what it does for our environment - every time I drive towards Sydney and see the brown haze over the city I wonder to myself how the people beneath can breathe - and Sydney doesn't have it bad, there are cities far worse.

Someone has to lead the world on this, and I'm of two minds on what to say about it - I don't know whether to say "Why the hell do WE have to be the first" or "Hey look, we're leading the world again!"

The issue there is whether or not what is being done is the right first step. I'm not sure it is. But I AM sure that a step needed to be taken, and that doing something to get industry to manufacture things with less pollutants can only make things healthier for all of us. Whether this is the right step or not I guess we'll see.

Aww - and here I was thinking that most folks here were incapable of a measured, reasoned response. Very well stated Old.Tony, & its a position that I can wholly understand and respect.
 
The y2k bug was a great laugh. One large retailer we work for shut the system down at 11:45 to 12:15 on the big night. As their systems were normally not shut down ever, they actually introduced more faults then y2k did. Something stupid like a 15% failure rate accross the contry. It cost them a fortune, getting techs out on the public holiday to get them back up and running.

sorry, back to the subject of governments (all parties) destroying the planet.
 
We live by what ifs everyday. What if i crash my car or someone steals it... most of us have our car insured. Most of us have some kind of insurance on our house. The chance of your house burning down is remote but the conciquences are huge.
So this Ray Evans is a climotologist? Has his paper been peer reviewed? That sort of thing is like listening to someone in the front bar of the pub.
So taking out little insurance against such catistrophic events is prudent.
And yes it cost more for energy, as Gillard in a rare moment of honesty pointed out "that is is the point" nothing changes behaviour like price and this is the basis for a price on carbon. Us alone will not make much of a difference but it's designed to take a lead, to make a cultural shift on the way we go about things. The tax scales will be more favourable if you use your head a about it you may well come out in front. If is going to hurt anybody it will be the high income high energy consuming housholds and I'm not going to loose to much sleep over that.

And another considered and well argued contribution - its such a welcome change.
 
The y2k bug was a great laugh. One large retailer we work for shut the system down at 11:45 to 12:15 on the big night. As their systems were normally not shut down ever, they actually introduced more faults then y2k did. Something stupid like a 15% failure rate accross the contry. It cost them a fortune, getting techs out on the public holiday to get them back up and running.

sorry, back to the subject of governments (all parties) destroying the planet.

It was a complete sham. I know several local companies that made a killing going through computer systems and readying them for the transition to Y2K. They charged phenomenal rates at the time too - something in the order of 4x my rate.

My life balance would be a lot different if I'd done the same. My cash reserves would be greatly inflated, at the expense of my personal store of karma.
 
Climate change is not related at all to the carbon tax.

The carbon tax is what it is... another tax. Nothing to do with climate change.

You left out the <tic> tongue In cheek.

The Carbon Tax is the government action in response to Climate Change. They are going to try for a reduction/limitation in further carbon emissions by firstly tax it.

In a few years it will move to a cap and trading system where by if you(certain industry/business) "emit" carbon, then you will need to buy permits from people who "sink/lockup" carbon. The government can then limit total Australian carbon emissions by restricting the number of permits traded.

As far as I know, the only working sink is a pile for plantation forest planted everywhere. Many of which destroyed biodiverse existing forest to plant mono-culture plantations. that happened under Little Johnny as a tax lurk.

There is a big bet on that carbon sequestration where they collect CO2, liquify it and pump it underground to tryand lock it up will work.

Farmers are hoping for a guernsey at it, but it is two edged sword for them.
 
So this Ray Evans is a climotologist? Has his paper been peer reviewed? That sort of thing is like listening to someone in the front bar of the pub.

It is merely an opinion, like 90% of what you read/hear in the media.

The real idiots are the ones that don't make themselves informed on both sides of an arguement prior to forming their own opinion.

I have spent quite a few hours on this website: http://climatedebatedaily.com/

Very good info.
 
As we all know, it was smoke and mirrors. The ONLY thing that went wrong was a file management program began picking up the year as "100" because that was the next year after "99".

This about it. About 1994, applications and OS started coming out that understood that 99 meant 1999 and 00 meant 2000. You can find that setting in a lot of applications these days. They are ready for 2099 if they don't already have four digit year fields.

When I was asked what parts of "our network" needed changing, I said none. Most of the network boxen were nearly 20 years old and had no clock and those that did only used it for logging by appending to a text file and to display on a text terminal screen when you had to change config or reset.

Lol, got 8 hours of double time nurse maiding the system that night. as Tony said, the only problems happened in the database they had because the programmers hadn't done a thorough check of the programs.

The other funny thing was even though they had survived Y2K, the accountants insisted that it all had to be upgraded and a rather high class Ci$co $eller was invite to quote. I had fun writing technical appraisals of the various quotes they were putting forward. Seems the unloved Netcomm boxen had a double speed back plane that pissed over their Cisco based replacement, so they had to go $1$G$b$i$t$ stuff to give better service . Silly buggers didn't need any of it, but I had to write up a proposal to go to HQ in London, which was accepted.

What canned it was they suddenly realised that it actually meant their overdraft would rise by $2M and generate SFA extra income. Got extra karma points with the young systems manager when I correctly predicted that happening.

My problem with "global warming/whatever" is that it is a very complex situation and all the debate has focussed on carbon without saying anything about the other factors like methane(cows, human seweage, etc), water vapour etc.

So when they scream "Climate Change". I just shrug and go So! It is what happens naturally and what the planet has been doing since it coalesced.

I know about the "recent" data but also know that since the 1980s, little environmental research has been funded that wasn't out to find "global warming". <tic> We should do more research (it was a cool job wandering around Barrington tops measuring trees to see if global warming had changed the way a certain species reproduced).</tic>

I distrust the models they run as when 911 shut down airlines flights in the USA, and the average temperatures dropped 2 degrees, it took them ages to realise that it was because the aircraft were not there. Part of the reason for that brown haze over Sydney that Tony mentioned. They then started adjusting models to account for this. Were the "recent" measuring stations also affected by overflight from plane routes? They have assured us it isn't heat island affect from growing cities(quick cull all those).

Anyway, I'm still on wait and see.
 
Didn't Gillard hand 1 Billion dollars to the power generators the other day.

Its a merry go round.

The Carbon tax is a load of shit. Its just moving money around and wont change anything.

The Cimate is always changing, no tax will fix it.

How much pollution has been made from making, Solar Panels, Pink Bats, "Green" cars that need new toxic battery's every 6 years. The list goes on and on and on.

All this "Green" bullshit is causing more pollution in manufacturing.
 

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