D22 vs Hilux vs BT50

[mxb01]

Hi All,

I'm in the market for a Navara D22. From what I've read about them they are pretty much bullet proof given they are serviced regularly.

I've seen a 2006 3L TD with 67,000klms on it which looks, sounds, and drives pretty well.

Upon talking to my family with are all Toyota owners they say stick with a Hilux. My Budget is 22-26k and given that new shape Hilux's are out of my reach. So the 2002-2004 ones are but are pretty rare in a TD.

Other than that leaves the BT50 which I think is more a soft offroader.

Taking all this into account I'm leaning to the D22. Before I hand over my hand earned cash I was going to get a RACQ check done.

Does anyone have any horror stories with the D22 3L motor? Or is the Thailand 2.5L motor better?

Thanks in advance.

 

[KraftyPg]

I'd go the Kubota, more expensive but more refined than a D22 and a BT50 and it will carry a couple of bales of hay without any troubles.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

I have a Ford Courier single cab with a 2.5 turbo diesel at work (basically the same as the BT50 under the skin). Compared to my own Nissan 2.5 turbo diesel the Ford definitely had more get up and go but it also had a harsher ride and a noisier cabin.

Honestly I'd probably be fine with either but the D22 was quite a bit cheaper new than either the BT50 or the Courier which swung me that way, and I can't say I'm unhappy it did.

 

[Old.Tony]

You could also look at what you'll be doing with it. The BT50 and the Hilux don't tow as much as the Navara, so if towing is your thing, consider that as well.

It's one of the reasons why we chose a Navara. Of course, now that we own one, we're really very happy with it!

 

[mxb01]

Thanks for all your comments. It will just be used as a daily for me to get to work and camping trips.

Is there any major difference in the 3L vs 2.5L? From what I've read on here the 2.5L are put together in Thailand and have be prone to problems??

 

[KraftyPg]

I wouldn't say prone to problems, like all engines there has been issues but I think you'll find most people here with both the 2.5 and the 3 are happy. It does pay to remember that bad news will always travel faster than good news, even if you read 10 unhappy stories on this forum 10 is a very very very small number of total Navs on the road so it's not like you're getting a majority report.

 

[Old.Tony]

I can't agree more strongly with Krafty.

Our tendency as humans is to complain bitterly and loudly about the things that irk us and basically ignore the things that aren't bothering us.

If your car is behaving well, and doing exactly what you expect of it mile after mile, you think no further about it and just keep on driving.

It's only when you're having a bad time and your car isn't doing what it's supposed to do that you seek to complain about it.

And when you only have 10 people having a moan out of hundreds and hundreds of owners (I hesitate to say thousands, but surely it would be) it's actually quite a good reflection on the vehicle.

 

[KraftyPg]

It would be thousands in reality, according to figures last week Nissan are still selling around 5000 Navs a month. Even with the break up of 5 different models (and the 4 550's they've managed to produce) it still shows that even our community is very small compared to the actual numbers sold.

 

[Dave]

Welcome to the forum mate.

I have a 2006 Navara that has over 200,000km's and still going strong.

The more km's it gets, the better it gets.

 

[KraftyPg]

The link below is all US based figures and it doesn't appear they have Australian figures will ever be released but on the topic of the number of problems compared to the number of cars sold Nissan aren't doing that great with figures of 183 problems per 100 cars sold. The figures obvious don't paint a true picture because one car with 50 problems throws out averages but it shows that yanks are either big whingers or Nissan in the US is having a few issues.

Revealed: The most dependable car brands

 

[Dave]

^ I find it hard to believe American built vehicles faired so well.

A mate had a Ford Explorer and it was the biggest lemon I have come across.

 

[KraftyPg]

I had a mate with the same Explorer problem too.


Given that a complaint to a dealer could be anything from I didn't get a free tank of fuel to the car wasn't clean at delivery it's not hard to see how they can get so many complaints. They really need to distinguish minor problems from major problems. But the figures for last year were very similar so the one thing it does show is that manufacturers really aren't improving.

 

[mxb01]

Awesome.. Thanks for the feedback.

I'm still looking for pro and cons for the 3L vs the 2.5L.

The 2.5L is newer and have a cooler which is the only difference I can really see. Anyone else got an opinion?

 

[Old.Tony]

The intercooler is handy for catching bits of broken turbocharger compressor blades. I think the 2.5 intercooled also has a little more get-up than the 3L, but you could probably chip and intercool the 3L to get a few more ponies again. Then it's a matter of the drive train being able to cope!

Just in case someone was interested: turbochargers DO fail and if you've got a turbo that pumps directly into the intake manifold, a failure that creates metal fragments will inject those fragments at high velocity into the manifold and therefore into the cylinders. If that happens, it's bye-bye working motor and bye-bye to several thousand $ to fix it.

The way to avoid getting the fragments in the intake manifold is to install an intercooler between the turbocharger and the intake manifold, which will slightly raise the engine's power output as well.

The way to avoid having the fragments created in the first place is to firstly look after your turbo and secondly maintain it.

Looking after it: don't shut the engine down when the turbo's spinning and/or hot. Leave it idle for a bit - an EGT gauge is the best means of determining when it's cool enough (exhaust manifold at 250C or less would be a good start). This is what turbo timers are designed to do.

Maintaining it: every so often, thoroughly clean your hands and the external surface of the air intake, then remove the pipe from the turbocharger and give the turbo compressor a wiggle & spin. It should NOT wiggle at all and should spin smoothly and freely. If not, it needs to come out and get its bearings replaced.

Hope that isn't too much info in the wrong place!

 

[Dave]

The 3L is slightly more torquier with its bigger capacity.

But the YD25 is a good motor aswell.

 

[mxb01]

That's a pretty comprehensive detail Tony. Certainly something to consider is I was to go for the 3L which does not have a cooler.

From reading other people's forums the 2.5L seems to have problems with the injector pump and the black smoke?

I guess this would be picked up in a pre-purchase inspection by an independant?

 

[Old.Tony]

Smoke is something any diesel can suffer from. Same with fuel pumps.

The thing to remember is that when you read of 3 people having a particular problem in here, that's 3 out of several hundred members with that same (or similar enough) model vehicle. The rest are doing fine. People tend to complain about something wrong, because when it's wrong it stands out, than when it's working normally.

For instance, I have absolutely NO complaints about the rear window demister in my Navara. That's a meaningless statement really, because there is NOTHING wrong with it, so there's no need to raise it as a discussion point except to highlight the fact that people don't write about stuff that is not making a pain in the ass of itself.

What I'm trying to say is that either engine could have an issue. There's little difference in fuel economy - much of that is in the way that you drive it. If you want to spend the money on an intercooler for the 3L so that they're effectively as well protected as each other, then it comes down to appearance, styling and what you feel like spending your hard-earned on, because both would be near enough equal in other respects.

(A common source of black smoke is the EGR valve, and there are good threads here to instruct you on how to disable that, just search for 'EGR').

 

[Al]

personally i'd just go the 3.0Lt

 

[ozlauterbacher]

Krafty, I would like to correct you on your 550 numbers. There are 6 - I have just seen mine in the flesh and should have it on Friday. Photographic evidence can be produced if necessary.

 

[KraftyPg]

There is actually 7, I know of a guy from another forum who has one, Nissan are really excelling at the moment.