D22 towing in 4wd

[john]

Hi All,
I have a D22 3.0 td with which I tow a caravan. Recently in a caravan park the guy next to me, (mazda dualcab 4wd turbo, 3.0) suggested to me that I should be towing around town and everytime I start off in 4wd. He went on to say he used to have a D22 and that he did so with it as well as his current ride.
He reckons that the short distances on bitumen wont cause any problems for the car and in fact will assist take off and save wear on clutch and other components etc.
The question is, with manual free wheeling hubs this would be impossible to do wouldn't it? I do notice that if I select 4wdH without locking the hubs the car does feel different to drive. Or can you drive in 2wd with front hubs locked without causing damage. Otherwise to go from 4wd back to 2wd you need to stop each time. The next question would have to be, Why was I told I could shift from 4wd to 2wd on the fly???

thanks in advance
John

 

[RustyNav09]

I'm gonna say what I think and the Mazda guy is correct. I used to do this in a Mitsubishi triton turbo diesel that a mate had. Short distances is fine. Meaning first gear take off then change to second and switch back to 2wd then let clutch out. The triton I drove was easy cause 2wdH was in the same spot as 2nd gear on the down change.

In saying this the hubs were not locked and they don't need to be. The locked rear will give you better traction etc to take off for towing. You can change from 4H to 2H without stopping and 2H to 4H.

Dunno If this helps or not. Someone will fill in more

 

[joshman]

the guy is an idiot. you should never drive a 4wd drive vehicle in actual 4wd on firm surfaces. it'll cause all kinds of binding and problems with your transfer case and gear box. if you're travelling in a straight line, then 4wd on firm surfaces like bitumen will be fine, but as soon as you turn a corner... the problems will start.

you can drive in "2H" with the hubs locked in no dramas, you're wheels will be spinning your front diff over, no dramas, aparts from using a bit more fuel and being a bit more sluggish.

you can also drive in "4H" or "4L" with your hubs UNLOCKED on the bitumen no problems as well. again, your gearbox and transfer will be turning over the front diff, causeing it to use a bit more fuel and seem a bit more sluggish.

but i would NEVER be driving on the bitumen in "4H" or "4L" with the hubs locked in.

the problem arises because the the wheels at the back and the wheels at the front are going to try and turn at slightly different rates as you turn corners and whatnot, and because there is no central differential to work these problems out like in your bigger 'full-time 4wd" vehicles, that difference gets transferred straight into the gears and chains of your transfer case. and the only way that the difference is going to be worked out, is by breaking something.

 

[joshman]

I'm gonna say what I think and the Mazda guy is correct. I used to do this in a Mitsubishi triton turbo diesel that a mate had. Short distances is fine. Meaning first gear take off then change to second and switch back to 2wd then let clutch out. The triton I drove was easy cause 2wdH was in the same spot as 2nd gear on the down change.

In saying this the hubs were not locked and they don't need to be. The locked rear will give you better traction etc to take off for towing. You can change from 4H to 2H without stopping and 2H to 4H.

Dunno If this helps or not. Someone will fill in more

explain what you mean by a "locked rear" the 4wd lever engages and disengages the front differential only, as far as i know.

 

[Bazz]

the guy is an idiot. you should never drive a 4wd drive vehicle in actual 4wd on firm surfaces. it'll cause all kinds of binding and problems with your transfer case and gear box. if you're travelling in a straight line, then 4wd on firm surfaces like bitumen will be fine, but as soon as you turn a corner... the problems will start.

you can drive in "2H" with the hubs locked in no dramas, you're wheels will be spinning your front diff over, no dramas, aparts from using a bit more fuel and being a bit more sluggish.

you can also drive in "4H" or "4L" with your hubs UNLOCKED on the bitumen no problems as well. again, your gearbox and transfer will be turning over the front diff, causeing it to use a bit more fuel and seem a bit more sluggish.

but i would NEVER be driving on the bitumen in "4H" or "4L" with the hubs locked in.

the problem arises because the the wheels at the back and the wheels at the front are going to try and turn at slightly different rates as you turn corners and whatnot, and because there is no central differential to work these problems out like in your bigger 'full-time 4wd" vehicles, that difference gets transferred straight into the gears and chains of your transfer case. and the only way that the difference is going to be worked out, is by breaking something.

I have to agree with you never use four wheels drive on bitumen

 

[RustyNav09]

locked rear hmmmm i should of read my stuff before hitting post lol. as john said it does change the feel of it driving and i have to agree with that, BUT as josh stated i would def not go turning corners in and 4H or 4L on bitumen you will start breaking all sort of stuff. but straight lines are fine.

im not the best for 4wd knowledge but always thought that engaging 4wd also did something to the rear diff, but thinking about it properly the rear diff is driven through the case already in 2wd and the front is free until 4wd H or L is engaged.

thanks for picking that up josh

the only reason i keep the hubs locked on bitumen is when i need to go back to the starting point via bitmuen road on a 4wd day like Ripley rd. thats selecting 2H before hitting bitumen though.

Rusty

 

[joshman]

locked rear hmmmm i should of read my stuff before hitting post lol. as john said it does change the feel of it driving and i have to agree with that, BUT as josh stated i would def not go turning corners in and 4H or 4L on bitumen you will start breaking all sort of stuff. but straight lines are fine.

im not the best for 4wd knowledge but always thought that engaging 4wd also did something to the rear diff, but thinking about it properly the rear diff is driven through the case already in 2wd and the front is free until 4wd H or L is engaged.

thanks for picking that up josh

the only reason i keep the hubs locked on bitumen is when i need to go back to the starting point via bitmuen road on a 4wd day like Ripley rd. thats selecting 2H before hitting bitumen though.

Rusty

it might feel like more traction because you're also turning over the front diff? but the actual gain is purely a placebo effect. i don't keep the hubs locked as a daily drive; no point in turning over the front diff if i don't have to. i'll keep the oil for longer, use less fuel, feels nicer to drive (true story). i'll use 2wd as far as i can before hitting it down into 4wd.

 

[RustyNav09]

yeh it must be just a feel thing. as you said why turn it over if you dont have to. save fuel and also mainteneance cost to front diff and transfer case.

Rusty

 

[tweak'e]

Recently in a caravan park the guy next to me, (mazda dualcab 4wd turbo, 3.0) suggested to me that I should be towing around town and everytime I start off in 4wd.

sorry but the guy is an idiot.

provided you have traction, there is no need or use for 4wd, towing or not. using 4x4 for "around town" towing is only going to increase fuel usage and wear. it adds a fair bit of resistance so you will do MORE wear on the clutch.

the only time you should use 4x4 is when you NEED to use it. ie slippery roads.
i've done it towing a trailer on gravel roads as i could not get enough grip to get up the hill. smart idea to have hubs locked in before hand

 

[john]

Thanks for the replies guys,
i think i will just drive as I always have in 2wd on the road. Still not sure though what the "Shift on the fly" is good for if you have to stop to lock/unlock hubs.
John

 

[RustyNav09]

Thanks for the replies guys,
i think i will just drive as I always have in 2wd on the road. Still not sure though what the "Shift on the fly" is good for if you have to stop to lock/unlock hubs.
John

shift on the fly is good if you start to loose traction you can just shift the lever straight into 4H without having to clutch. only good offroad and when locked. when offroad its not really necessary to be in 4wd all the time escpecially when you have heaps of traction and usually you are already locked so u can just shift.

in saying that you cant go from 2H straight to 4L you have to stop to allow the transfer to lower its gearing(if thats correct terms). but 2H to 4H is fine and visaversa.

Rusty

 

[sorebuttcheek]

you can also drive in "4H" or "4L" with your hubs UNLOCKED on the bitumen no problems as well. again, your gearbox and transfer will be turning over the front diff, causeing it to use a bit more fuel and seem a bit more sluggish.

.

apparently not true, my d22 owners manual says
"Never drive in 4-wheel drive ("4H" or "4L") with the free-running hubs in the FREE position.

got me a bit worried, as I was doing just that yesterday.

 

[Krankin]

.







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[tweak'e]

apparently not true, my d22 owners manual says
"Never drive in 4-wheel drive ("4H" or "4L") with the free-running hubs in the FREE position.

got me a bit worried, as I was doing just that yesterday.

correct, you shouldn't. but for short little bits its ok your not going to break anything.

doing it constantly like accidentally driving in 4H with hubs unlocked will wear the diff gears a lot. thats because there is no load on the gears they bounce back and forth off the teeth which is what does the damage.

 

[Krankin]

For short periods, like the original intension of this thread...to get off the line with a tow load, it'll be fine.

 

[sparra04]

shift on the fly is handy if your constantly changing in and out of 4wd as conditions change
for example
travelling on soft sand you obviously are in 4wd
when you hit the hard wet sand you can change back to 2wd if your under 80kph and vice versa