Check out the new hydrogen charger

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that's really cool. hopefully it catches on, goes mainstream making the prices affordable for everyday use!
 
Just noticed that they make one bigger enough to recharge deep cycle batteries, expensive sucker i bet.
 
Just noticed that they make one bigger enough to recharge deep cycle batteries, expensive sucker i bet.

I had a look at the specs, Only produces 15Amps. WTF, $600 worth of solar panels and I can get 20Amps while the sun shines.

I'd like to know the weight of the batt charger, then you might get some idea of how portable it is.

Give it another couple of decades for economies of scale to kick in. OTOH, the way battery technology is going, it would probably be easier and cheaper to just carry spare batteries.
 
Umm, AFAIK, it is never going to be cheaper than mains electricity because that is how they produce the hydrogen gas; electrolysis.

you can use solar panel for the base unit which will then do multiple recharges allot quicker then using the solar panel to do the recharging by itself, especially if it happens to be shit weather.
 
played around with fuel cells at uni, they are kind of shit to be honest, would I buy one of these? no not really, would terribly inefficient, more than solar which is already bad.
 
played around with fuel cells at uni, they are kind of shit to be honest, would I buy one of these? no not really, would terribly inefficient, more than solar which is already bad.

I wonder why Honda and other companies have invested so heavily in hydrogen powered cars and in some countries (iceland and in England) they already use Hydrogen powered busses.
 
I wonder why Honda and other companies have invested so heavily in hydrogen powered cars and in some countries (iceland and in England) they already use Hydrogen powered busses.

I guess they need to demonstrate its commercial viability.

There's a great difference between having a team of engineers (even ones that DO know their stuff) all agreeing on a particular means of achieving something and actually having that item both manufactured and working in the field.

There's also a difference between proving that a technology works, and then proving that the technology works repeatedly. I'll point at gel batteries as a perfect example here.

1) It's a BRILLIANT idea to use gel, because you can then orient the battery any way you like and the plates will NEVER lose contact with the electrolyte.

2) Batteries will NEVER spill and corrode surrounding parts

However

3) You MUST charge them at a low rate AND a lower voltage

4) Any mismanagement of the charge rate PERMANENTLY damages the battery

I don't know if the guys that dreamed up the gel idea thought about 3 & 4 when they were (rightly) beating their chests over 1 & 2. It truly is a brilliant idea otherwise.

Hydrogen power - any form of power, really - needs to not only be proven that it can deliver the required amount when needed, but can be maintained in the longer term.

I think it was Scania that developed a truck that ran on batteries in the city and used a model-aircraft type of micro jet turbine to drive a generator once the truck needed extra power. At the time, micro jet turbines used between 200ml and 500ml of fuel per minute and developed somewhere between 60lbs and 150lbs of thrust (approximately multiply by 10 for horsepower developed). A 1500hp engine driving a generator would produce a lot of power quickly, so the truck could again be silent as it entered the next village.

That sort of thing isn't really viable long-term. Micro turbines don't last - ask any pilot who's watched his SU27/F14/F15/F18/747 etc fall out of the sky trailing clouds of white smoke as the turbine seized. One of the pilots at the local airfield here had his F18 engine fail and was supremely lucky that one of the best pilots I know was standing nearby, offered to bring it back in, and it landed first go without a scratch from a precarious position (low altitude high speed run, flamed out halfway along the runway).

Taking new technology out to the field highlights these issues. It allows the engineers to either think up methods of circumventing the issues - like slow charge times for all-electric cars - or declaring them not worth the trouble, back to the drawing board.

Without them actually trying them, we could have all sorts of abortions floating around on our roads. Well, we do, but until they're commercially viable, you and I won't be buying them.

But - and I do mean this - if they figure out a way to refill the fuel tank with water and power the vehicle from that (without a thirsty hamster under the bonnet, thanks for the idea Great Wall but we're past that), I'd happily jump from my diesel.

Starting with small things like this is brilliant. They'll improve the efficiency, bring out larger capacity, higher power units and even change the charge method until one day, you stop at a stream, filter a bucket or two of water into the tank and then drive on.
 
The Honda Clarity that Top Gear drove a few years ago looked really good, had plenty of power and a long range between fill ups, it has the benefit of only taking 5min to fuel up and at a service station, also the way it is filled is very much like filling an LPG vehicle which IMO makes it a far better choice then having to plug it into an electrical socket for many HRS.

In 2008 Honda actually started producing them and have leased a small number of them in the US, Japan and Europe for around $600 per month inc full on road costs, insurance, maintenance and Hydrogen Fuel, which is not bad at all really my ute costs allot more then that per month in fuel alone.

I think the thing that is killing it is the high cost in creating the infrastructure to have hundreds of thousands of them running around.

Another thing they showed on Top Gear was the busses in Iceland and how they have there own filling stations allowing them to run an entire fleet.

I know all this is a far cry from us all driving them but its a start, just like the combustion engine when it first starting taking over from steam and horses, not many were making them and the cost per vehicle and the fuel was very high but with more and more production the costs came down and the infrastructure was created to keep up with the demand, the good thing about Hydrogen IMO is that we can keep the service station we already have and just modify them to suit rather then having to create a entire new and different set up in new locations.
 
I wonder why Honda and other companies have invested so heavily in hydrogen powered cars and in some countries (iceland and in England) they already use Hydrogen powered busses.
Just thought I might add a hydrogen fuel cell is not the same as hydrogen internal combustion.

Fuel cells combine hydrogen and oxygen to create H20 using an anode, cathode and electrolyte which an electrical current is produced from (albeit a small one).

Hydrogen gas combustion is just that, works pretty much the same but is much more efficient, the technology exists for us to stick with internal combustion just its a matter of 1. its cheaper and easier to still use crude oil 2. the oil companies would all go broke if we moved to other forms of internal combustion which would probably have pretty widespread economic implications.
 
Are we not talking about hydrogen fuel cells to run electric items? the charger i posted at the top of the page is and the system that runs the Honda FCX clarity uses the hydrogen cell to recharge the onboard battery packs and to power the electric engine.
Is anyone talking about Hydrogen internal combustion?
 
you said hydrogen powered cars/buses so yes you were generalising all vehicles powered by hydrogen, thats just how I read it so no need to get narky.

Its just IMO not a great idea to run a car off a fuel cell and batteries, those batteries are still highly toxic to manufacture and dispose of and if they are making hydrogen why not make it for internal combustion which AFAIK most cars can be modified to run off, obviously with a reduction in power.
 
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you said hydrogen powered cars/buses so yes you were generalising all vehicles powered by hydrogen, thats just how I read it so no need to get narky.

Its just IMO not a great idea to run a car off a fuel cell and batteries, those batteries are still highly toxic to manufacture and dispose of and if they are making hydrogen why not make it for internal combustion which AFAIK most cars can be modified to run off, obviously with a reduction in power.


Sorry, wasnt being narky at all, i just thought that it would be obvious to someone like yourself that all the things i mentioned were powered by a Hydrogen fuel cell.

Also in all the reviews i have read they say that they are more efficient and have MORE power in comparison to the diesel counterparts they are replacing.
 
Here is a little section of an article i read a while ago about the Busses in Iceland and there is a few in Perth being tested too.

During the following two years, they clocked up 90 000 kilometres. The buses performed well, comparing favourably in power and acceleration with diesel vehicles. The cost of their service and maintenance was carefully monitored, for comparison with conventional buses. “At the moment, the operating costs are out of the range of commercial profitability,” explained Skulason, “but the technology will become cheaper as it is refined and mass-produced.” And there were very positive results. “The vehicles needed less maintenance than anyone expected,” he continued. “They were available for 80% of the time, which is extremely good.”

ECTOS carried out an environmental analysis of the hydrogen buses in operation to see how efficiently they used their fuel. Their efficiency over the whole fuel chain was not optimal. The buses were designed for durability, not fuel efficiency. Studies showed that efficiency could be improved using the same equipment, if the buses operated for six or seven days at a time, raising the demand for hydrogen so that the station could generate hydrogen continuously for several weeks at a time.
 
I think what we need is for at least one of the technologies to be trialed on a large scale in a small city, however this is the problem with saving the environment, people just think of the cost not potential benefits later on down the track.
 
I read somewhere Iceland's goal is to be fossil fuel free by 2050, and they have started running some fishing boats, a small fleet of cars, trucks, along with the busses to continue trials.
They also have shell and Daimler Chrysler backing there research and trials, BUT they are in a very good position to gain from the technology from all the geothermal power they generate and have at there fingertips which will help them produce the Hydrogen fro export.
 
The money is being invested into developing better Hydrogen fuel power solutions as it requires central production and will have little competition. So far, it is seen as the only replacement for petroleum fuel.

Gel batteries were popular because at the time, there was wet (leaky?) batteries or gel cells. They serve a niche. The problem was that too many people tried to sell them a great miracle cure all. the same selling approach is being applied to AGM batteries atm.

The only problem with steam cars was the warm up period. Okay, fuel was messy, but I can catch my own water and grow my own fuel.
 

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