Bob Brown resigns

[Geoff3DMN]

Correct the Greens policy is to stop all native forest logging for re-growth plantations

Except that the Greens haven't provided for funding for re-growth plantations or a policy which fixes a formula for compensation to companies that lose old growth logging rights.

In a similar way the extension of no fishing areas has driven other small businesses to the wall in fishing towns, not just fisherman with boats but processing plants and other small businesses that relied on that income.

And not only that the Greens actively lobbied against the already way too small compensation package that the Lib/Nats put forward for some commercial fishers that were effected so it's not like they've shown any desire to help where businesses close and people lose their livelihoods.

 

[Leprechaun]

A quick search shows Cattleman were offered $100,000 in compensation and offered leases in State Forest where applicable in 2005. I wonder how many took up the offer and invested the money into a alternative sustainable future?

You know what they say "adapt or die". I've had to do this with my own job, 2 Years at Tafe to get new qualifications to ensure my income was secure. I didn't want to but, but such is life. Now I'm financially much better off than if I had of stayed in a dying a trade.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

A quick search shows Cattleman were offered $100,000 in compensation and offered leases in State Forest where applicable in 2005

In accounting terms adequate compensation is defined as a multiplier of the business profit. For example 6 to 10 times the net profit that the business makes.

A $100,000 offer would suggest that the profit of the average Mountain Cattleman's lease property was only between $10,000 and $15,000 per year which simply isn't the case and hugely undervalues the businesses we are talking about.

If grossly inadequate compensation and an offer of a lease on land that in most cases was not of similar quality (which would have reduced profit massively) is the Greens idea of 'fair compensation' then no wonder we had Mountain Cattlemen protests in Melbourne.

 

[Leprechaun]

I wont argue the legalities or the $ worth of a "lease" That's a lawyers job and I doubt some dread locked Greenie just pulled those figures from his unwashed ass. You'll have to blame the State Government for that one.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

You'll have to blame the State Government for that one.

Without the Greens the whole process wouldn't have started, so I blame the Greens for it.

 

[d22dave]

What forest has being locked up by the Greens? What forests have they said they will close when they rule the planet?

.

the greens argue against prescribed burning

 

[Leprechaun]

Without the Greens the whole process wouldn't have started, so I blame the Greens for it.

That's OK Geoff, your more than welcome to. I dont take it personally when someone expresses or looks at the other point of view.
We all blame someone for something. At least you've come up with a valid argument, rather than just blurting out some crap with no evidence to support it. Present the facts and I will happily listen even agree if it fits my own ideology.haha
Personally I think the Healthcare system is this countries biggest problem, Perhaps if there was a gay health minister there would be more outrage on the terrible state of our hospitals, to the point it would become a topic on a Navara forum. LOL.

 

[KraftyPg]

If Dave was around more it would become a Poll

 

[d22dave]

WTF? Oh, I see - you think that shooting shit, chain-sawing shit, digging shit up, fragmenting native veg, destroying populations of native animals etc prevents bushfires. Hmmmm - I see the you've been joining Dave smoking the good stuff hey?

To put it as simply as I can - you couldn't prevent bushfires (severe or otherwise) during an Australian summer even if you concreted the place over! Crops burn, towns burn, plantations burn - all with the same reliability as bush!

Lets see i only shoot ferals. i only cut my firewood from fallen timber, that has to go because its in the way of cropping land and was never going to be left for habitat.

And as for commenting on bushfires unless your a firefighter paid or volunteer, your comments aren,t worth shite to me

 

[Leprechaun]

the greens argue against prescribed burning

Yes, they argue thats it's carried out properly. Nothing wrong with that,IMO. I dont want my favorite campsite burnt out when the area is no threat to a community.

Have a read of this. Their proposed policy isnt all doom and gloom, end of the world stuff,

http://vic.greens.org.au/sites/vic.greens.org.au/files/policydownloads/Forests policy rev2-w.pdf

 

[d22dave]

Yes, they argue thats it's carried out properly. Nothing wrong with that,IMO. I dont want my favorite campsite burnt out when the area is no threat to a community.

I agree some area,s shouldn,t be burnt. like all the towns near me. personally i wish they would do a burn near my place, it hasn,t seen a fire since the sixties, but were we live dont count its not daylesford or ballarat

 

[Leprechaun]

I agree some area,s shouldn,t be burnt. like all the towns near me. personally i wish they would do a burn near my place, it hasn,t seen a fire since the sixties, but were we live dont count its not daylesford or ballarat

Dont disagree with you at all Dave, I've seen how close to the forest you live, I would want it burnt out too as I'm sure you wouldn't want to see it developed into a housing commission estate or logged away.

 

[d22dave]

Dont disagree with you at all Dave, I've seen how close to the forest you live, I would want it burnt out too as I'm sure you wouldn't want to see it developed into a housing commission estate or logged away.

Thanks Jase, if you go for a closer look behind my house the bush really doesn,t look that good, It was logged probably 20 years ago and its overgrown with thin spindly trees and not much in the way of mature trees. i have a gripe with the management of the wombat by all who manage it, the cape broom and gorse are a problem just waiting to take over and no one seems to do a bloody thing. And yes development is a hard one, on one hand we need it but on the other i,m sure there,s plenty of examples were it wasn,t done right, And youre right i wouldnt want them to put any development behind me. Lucky i back onto a state forest

 

[Old.Tony]

All these years and whodathunkit ... Kermit was right all along.

Click here if you didn't understand that.

And I vote for either of these guys as PM.

 

[Pinelli]

Have you read this?

http://reconciliation.org.au/home/resources/factsheets/q-a-factsheets/wild-rivers-legislation

Can you point me in the direction of the mining concession information?

Poorly phrased - certainly no mining application has been knocked back in a Wild Rivers area. Some conditions have been imposed, but the act does not ban any sort of mining, and they just ahve to go through the normal applicatin process. See http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/
It does force indigenous owners to apply to make use of their own land, somthing they didn't need to do beforehand. Given the battles they've had to actually get ownership of the land, it just makes it more difficult for them to improve the lot for their families.

I read the reconciliation website, and it certainly puts a rosy spin on the consultation process. A number of land councils up that way feel pretty much left out of the initial process, and any consultation has only happened years later, after they've made a fair bit of noise about it. Brisbane Greens leaders had more say on the Wild Rivers legislation than the people living up there.

During the recent election campaign, I certainly saw signs in inner city Brisbane (particularly Ashgrove) by the ALP trumpetting the Wild Rivers legislation, which has no real impact on the people living there other than allowing themselves a little pat on the back about how wonderful they are protecting an environment they will never go and see. I bet the ALP didn't run a Wild Rivers campaign like that up north.

Don't get me wrong, I think environmental protection is important. I guess I'm a little cynical about some of the left wingers, fighting for Aboriginal land rights for years, and then taking them away for a preference deal because they needed the votes in the city.

 

[nakedape]

Nah the real reason for the cows in the high country is to ambush annoying greenies and shit all over their electric pushbikes.

LOL

 

[nakedape]

the greens argue against prescribed burning

No they do not. Some argue for more research as to the efficacy but their policy is one of support.

 

[nakedape]

Except that the Greens haven't provided for funding for re-growth plantations or a policy which fixes a formula for compensation to companies that lose old growth logging rights.

During the Howard years $200 Mill was provided for restructuring away from native forests to plantation - another couple of hundred million is on the table for the forest peace deal.

 

[nakedape]

Lets see i only shoot ferals. i only cut my firewood from fallen timber, that has to go because its in the way of cropping land and was never going to be left for habitat.

Good - I took your original comment to mean that you'd rather the land was left for these activities than left in perpetuity for future generations.

And as for commenting on bushfires unless your a firefighter paid or volunteer, your comments aren,t worth shite to me

I research the effects of bushfire thus I'm widely read on the subject - there simply is no correlation between land-use and fire risk. in fact the majority of fires in SE Aus are the result of lightning or farm machinery (not counting arson cause there's just no understanding that shit) - the extent of the fires is largely reliant on prevailing weather. Fire breaks clearly help but large parks are no more a risk than anywhere else.

 

[nakedape]

Thanks Jase, if you go for a closer look behind my house the bush really doesn,t look that good, It was logged probably 20 years ago and its overgrown with thin spindly trees and not much in the way of mature trees. i have a gripe with the management of the wombat by all who manage it, the cape broom and gorse are a problem just waiting to take over and no one seems to do a bloody thing. And yes development is a hard one, on one hand we need it but on the other i,m sure there,s plenty of examples were it wasn,t done right, And youre right i wouldnt want them to put any development behind me. Lucky i back onto a state forest

F&*K I hate gorse - even if you manage to get all the plants with spray or fire you've got at least 20y of follow up to do.