ZD30, new head install, cranks, doesn't start.

[fritz.fx]

Hi all.
I've just finished putting a new head on. It turns over fine, but for some reason it just won't fire.
Before removing the timing chain, it seems as though I misinterpreted the image in the manual for the match mark on the chain. I had the yellow link at the position shown in the manual, on the camshaft sprocket (along with the timing mark on the crankshaft lined up). Which turned out to be incorrect, as I found once I removed the head and saw that it was not at top dead centre.
After freaking out for a short period, I rotated the crankshaft, one full revolution until the timing mark lined up, Piston No. 1 was at TDC, and C & CC lined up on the idler gear and injection pump gear.
My question is, With the timing mark lined up, C & CC lined up, and at TDC when the new head went on, what are the chances that all, or some of the other gears aren't lined up correctly? Because the only way for me to know for sure right now is to remove the gear case cover to look, and I'd really like to avoid that.

 

[fritz.fx]

I may have found the problem.
I pulled the timing chain cover off again. The timing chain match marks line up when the crank timing mark lines up, but C & CC no longer line up.

 

[dagwill]

HI i HAD THIS NIGHTMARE ONCE MYSELF,,, OOPS LEFT CAPS ON,, when i changed th injector pump. I dont fully understand but the ZD30 has "hunting" timing. All the marks only line up about once in 20 turns. The C CC marks AND the TDC mark have to line up exactly at the same time. You will have to turn the engine over untill this happens. Be aware that you will probably get valve interaction with the top of the pistons and need to turn cams back or forth as you turn the engine to overcome this. Note once the marks start getting close you can turn the engine 2 revolutions before CC marks come around again
DONT hit the starter until all is finnished, when you have finnished turn the engine over 2 revolutions by hand to check the pistons are not hitting valves, then try starting.

 

[dennisjh69]

HI i HAD THIS NIGHTMARE ONCE MYSELF,,, OOPS LEFT CAPS ON,, when i changed th injector pump. I dont fully understand but the ZD30 has "hunting" timing. All the marks only line up about once in 20 turns. The C CC marks AND the TDC mark have to line up exactly at the same time. You will have to turn the engine over untill this happens. Be aware that you will probably get valve interaction with the top of the pistons and need to turn cams back or forth as you turn the engine to overcome this. Note once the marks start getting close you can turn the engine 2 revolutions before CC marks come around again
DONT hit the starter until all is finnished, when you have finnished turn the engine over 2 revolutions by hand to check the pistons are not hitting valves, then try starting.

What a pain in the arse. I would have taken it to a good diesel mechanic.

 

[fritz.fx]

Thanks.
I decided to attempt to remove the gear cover so that I knew for sure that everything is lined up. Which I'm regretting right now. The gear cover is 90% off but it's catching on something. And I'm committed to removing it fully since it needs the sealant on it.
But I can see now that C & CC is lined up as well as B& BB. Just can't see the others.
Starting to doubt myself now, maybe everything was lined up and it wasn't starting for some other reason.

 

[fritz.fx]

Can confirm, my timing is out. I broke a mirror and super glued a small piece to a brass rod so that I could see the gears.
A & AA, C & CC, D & DD line up.
B & BB, E & EE do not line up. So I guess that answers my original question.

I really don't know what I'm going to do about the sealant on the back of the gear cover, I can't get it all the way off to put new sealant on it. Guess I'll just bolt it back on and see what happens. If it leaks, I'll get a mechanic to deal with that because it seems as though the sump has to come off, and I'm definitely not doing that.
Also, there's meant to be a metal gasket on the top half of the gear case, and there wasn't one.

 

[dagwill]

I did exactly the same and removed the whole timing cover, when all i had to do was turn the engine over X times which with glow plugs out is pretty easy. amyway i did the same. Streaching my memory a bit but i think i had ot use 2 lock nuts to remove a water pump stud, or two, i think there was a bolt or two that came up through the sump as well. In the end it tilted forwards at the top then came out.

 

[dagwill]

I did not drop my sump and as for the metal gasket,,,,,,,, it was sealed before,,,,, im sure you can do it again.
I think i had to get a big rattle gun to take the big nut off harmonic balancer,,,,,,, it was a long time ago
keep posting, ill keep an eye out,, hope i can help

 

[dagwill]

Pondering over the tital to this post,,, at some stage you had been cranking with the timing out. Check that you havnt bent a valve while doing this. Turn it over by hand [ socket on harmonic balancer hut] check you have compression on all cylinders.

 

[fritz.fx]

After I bolted the head on, and with the timing chain on and the the glow plugs out, I used a 41mm socket on the balancer nut and turned it over by hand several times to make sure the valves weren't hitting the pistons. All was well there, I felt no resistance to anything, and nothing felt as though it was hitting anything. So I'm pretty confident that I haven't bent a valve.
As for the timing cover. I have the water pump studs, the balancer and balancer nut off. The cover is 95% off, but part of it is catching, so I can't get it completely off (see pic).
With the tiny stick mirror, I am able to see all the gear markings now. So I am at the point where I can turn it over by hand and line up all the gears correctly. So the cover doesn't need to come off for that. (It's just going to be a pain)
If I think about it for a minute, I might be able to make something to get the sealant in there without taking it al the way off.

I was wrong about the gasket. In between the timing cover and the block there's a ~6mm thick steel plate the same shape as the block. The gasket goes between that and the block, I was thinking for a moment it went in between it and the timing cover. (see pic)

I have to work this morning, so I'll get back at at it this arvo and take the next couple of days off to spend some more time on it.

 

[dagwill]

so glad to hear you had turned it over by hand and checked its not hitting valves,, big relief. I remember when my tuiming cover came off i was "forcing" it and almost felt like i was going to damage something as it came off. Back to timing marks, as i turned it over the marks slowly got closer. Like the crank mark was at tdc and the CC marks were 5 teeth out,, turned two revolutions,, tdc the CC marks 4 teth out, 2 revs 3 teeth out until as it came around to tdc C and CC marks were correct. At that point ALL timing marks should align. Then you can check the chain
.

 

[dagwill]

You would prob realise this but if CC marks are say 6 teeth out and nextime around they are 7 teeth out, rather than go right around the gear, reverse rotation.

 

[fritz.fx]

I finally got it. All the timing marks line up. And what a relief that is.
This was the process that I had to go through: (feel my pain)
With glow plugs removed, and gear cover unbolted and loose. (can't remove it all the way).
Install Crankshaft nut.
Install timing chain. (with match marks lined up)
With a 41mm socket, rotate the crankshaft nut by hand. (The timing chain completes 4 and a bit revolutions until the C & CC gears match up again.)
Remove crankshaft nut
Remove timing chain.
Pull the gear case back, and using a tiny inspection mirror and a good light, check to see if the E & EE gears line up. If they don't line up, reinstall the timing chain and crankshaft nut. Rinse and repeat. Don't try to count how many times you have to do it, it's quite depressing.
This took several hours, and it's a good rival to any workout you'll be having at the gym. It's a hell of a lot of cranking over by hand.

If the C & CC gears line up, then the A & AA gears, and the D & DD gears will line up. But the E & EE gears, and the B & BB gears may NOT line up.
But, assuming you haven't removed any gears, if the C & CC gears, and the E & EE gears line up, then all the others should be lined up.

The next step is to make some sort of nozzle type thing so that I can get the sealant onto the back of the gear cover before bolting it back up. But first, priorities, coffee and a break.

I wouldn't wish this on anybody.
And for anybody who's about to change the head/gasket or even just the timing chain. When it comes to removing the timing chain, DO NOT reference the image in the manual on the removal of the timing chain page, it's extremely misleading, making it very easy to make the mistake I made. Reference the image on the installation of the timing chain page, that is much clearer. (see pic) You don't want to have to go through with I just did.

 

[Erick]

Having just replaced head on my zd3.0, I can say that the large front timing cover does come off, but catches on the injector pump drive gear. U need to wriggle it past that with some force and it left a scratch on the cover. I carefully filed that out to assist with reinstall.
It really helps if u consider the timing system as two separate systems, one the gears, two the cam chain.

 

[Erick]

As for not starting, is injector pump bled up? When u feel confident to use starter motor, loosen injector lines at injectors and diesel should appear and run out of the rubber shroud things at that junction. Within a few revolutions of the motor. Hand pump the fuel inlet line as well beforehand.

 

[Erick]

And the scissor gear needs to be locked with a 6mm (10mm head) threaded bolt thru the gear to lock both front and rear scissors gears. There is a thread on rear scissor gear and the bolt will clamp the unit as one.

 

[dagwill]

Just read your post as to AA DD EE CC gear marks. I think the important thing is TDC and C CC marks There is a mark on the harmonic balancer which lines up with TDC mark at about 10 o'clock . So the TDC marks line up exactly as c cc marks line up. Then everything else should be correct, and line up. ,,,,, If the C & CC gears line up, then the A & AA gears, and the D & DD gears will line up. BUT IS IT AT TDC. at this point . Double check,,, go have a coffee come back double check again.

 

[dagwill]

Erick is right but you only need to worry about scissor gear if you are removing it or the injector pump.

 

[Erick]

Yeah. I was replacing pump as well. How to spend $5k plus without really trying.

 

[fritz.fx]

Thanks for all the input, it is greatly appreciated.
I took Erick's advice, and weaseled the gear cover off in the end and lightly filed that catchy part. Maybe I didn't have the guts to give it that little extra force to get it off in the beginning, wish I did, it could have saved me a lot of work and time. But it didn't really feel right at the time to force it off so I wasn't real keen on doing it.

In the end, everything lined up perfectly. Just managed to put it all back together except for the radiator, now there's only one problem left, crank no start.
Even though I'm certain everything is correct, I might just have to go back and methodically check it all, Could be something as simple a connector coming loose when I moved the wiring harness out of the way.