What's a serious offroader vs softroader

[YBOD]

On the way back from a recent trip the wife and I were discussing what constituted a "serious offroader", an off reader and a soft roarer (yeah I know, not the normal husband/wife debates but what can I say, she's that type of girl).

Anyway, in the good old days it was easy; a patrol, defender or Cruiser as an off reader, if they were modified and bo tailed for rock crawling they were serious off reader and anything else (Rav 4, xtrail or freelander) was a softroader. It could have been an engine size/power thing (although that would rule out all Landies) or perhaps solid axles and solid chasis vs IFS and monocoque. I'm not quite sure.

However, with the ever increasing range of softer softer roaders as well as plenty of contenders in the "perfectly capable" but perhaps not "serious" off reader category such as our own beloved Navara its not so clear cut.

So, thought I'd so throw it out there: what separates an off reader from a softroader nowadays in your opinion?

 

[nathand22]

A "SOFT ROADER" is a "ALL WHEEL DRIVE" and has no transfer case, therefore has no LOW range and has a centre differential. eg Kluger, Subaroo OUTBACK ect

 

[big zetor]

and soon the all new pathfinder

 

[YBOD]

Nathan, that about the forester. It has Lo range but is still AWD. Certainly a softroader but has the Lo range.

Big zetor, I take it you are impressed with the new pathfinder then ;0)

 

[big zetor]

just another wrong turn for nissan makes me wonder who is calling the shot's when it comes to there 4x4's.

 

[nathand22]

Nathan, that about the forester. It has Lo range but is still AWD. Certainly a softroader but has the Lo range.

Big zetor, I take it you are impressed with the new pathfinder then ;0)

I didnt mention the Forester, but regardless of the make from what i believe all "AWD" with no transfer case is considered a "soft roader"

 

[nathand22]

Nathan, that about the forester. It has Lo range but is still AWD. Certainly a softroader but has the Lo range.

Big zetor, I take it you are impressed with the new pathfinder then ;0)

Just had a read through Subaroo web site and ther is no mention of the FORESTER having a transfer case
have a read for your self
http://subaru.com.au/forester/2.0i-2.5i/specs

 

[Old.Tony]

In truth you could turn any vehicle into anything you want. Josh turned his D22 - which in real terms is only a few mm narrower and shorter than a D40 - into an incredible beast - a true "serious offroader".

However, Navaras generally have too long a wheelbase to do the heart-pounding stuff. Ramp-over is the biggest issue. Sidle up alongside a Zook Sierra and compare. Put a 50+50mm lift on the Zook, whack 35" muddies on it and then tell me what you think of it - first impression will be "serious offroader" and all you've done is what people do to their Navaras! It's the wheelbase that has the greatest impact on what you can clamber over.

I don't intend to do a lot of clambering, and bought mine for towing! That said, we went on a trip with some wonderful people from this forum to Nundle and camped at Sheba Dam. From there we went on some 4WD tracks - and had considerable fun doing it! Some of it was quite technical, some hills we clambered down we'd never get back up and there were muddy gullies (some might call them wheel tracks but these looked like they were made by Massey Fergusons) that we daren't go near. There were a few water crossings too, nothing deep but care was still needed, particularly in the section where Brad (unlifted D40STX550) had a minor problem with approach/departure that was solved by a little rock throwing.

I still think mine is a soft(ish) roader. I could throw money at it and make it something more - like could be done for any 4WD. Lockers exist for the Outbacks etc, to lock both diffs and transfer case too. Give them a lift kit, snorkel, recovery points blah blah and away you go - a hard roader from a softie.

So if you're looking for what I'd call the difference - a "serious offroader" is a car that can get itself into - and out of - most situations away from formed roads. That's not quite mine - not high enough (lift=45mm front, 85mm rear), no lockers, no winch for the rear. A "softie" is something you wouldn't want to take anywhere harsher than wet grass. Cars like the Navara would be - if the term was coined - a "medium offroader", because it's pretty capable with a few $ thrown at it, but nowhere near as much as something with a short wheelbase and decent transmission setup.

 

[charlie strayarc]

For me, what separates offroader from soft roader is a separate ( from body) ladder frame chassis, a transfer case and high and low range.
A bit of after market ground clearance obviously helps.

 

[Kingy89]

Serious off roader big Wheel deep lugs reasonable flex and someone with the stone to naviaget and over come obsticles.

or what that saying Lock Stomp Steer If at first you dont succeed speed and stupiduty will lol

 

[fourocker]

I always defined a proper off roader by having a separate ladder frame chassis and high and low range transfer case but my previous vehicle was a Jeep Grand Cherokee, no separate ladder frame chassis but with high and low range transfer case, the low range gearing in that was superb in fact I believe the lowest of all production vehicles. It was actually very good off road, coil sprung live axles at both ends and very softly sprung but once loaded up with camper in tow on rough roads etc it became seriously out of it's depth, it just couldn't cut it when the real work began.
Was it a beefy soft roader or proper off roader I really don't know in standard form, Iv'e seen some really hard core results in the states with them but like any vehicle with enough money thrown at it, it is what it is, the Navara just kills it for versatility and ruggedness straight out of the box and can cope with fairly serious off road travel with minimum money spent on modification.

 

[terryc]

First problem here is what do you mean by off road? Off black top(one version/extremity) to cross country(other extreme). and then where does it have to be "off-road" because what I'd want out in the middle would be different to coastal ranges.

 

[YBOD]

For me, what separates offroader from soft roader is a separate ( from body) ladder frame chassis, a transfer case and high and low range.
A bit of after market ground clearance obviously helps.

Charlie, this is pretty much my definition, either great minds think alike ( or fools seldom differ).

I always swore I'd never have anything but Patrols but when the family came along and i wanted a new offroader but budget wouldn't stretch to a GU off the forecourt then I looked at dual cabs for the versatility. Test drove quite a few determined I was going to move away from the Nissan both because a change is as good as a rest and because I thought the D40 was but ugly (and this is from a previous FJ Cruiser owner!!) but after test driving I went for the D40 without hesitation because it was reasonably capable, rugged and versatile while still drove like a comfortable truck not a tradie truck

Having now taken her off road proper we got chatting in the car and like all good debates never got to an answer. Interesting to hear other views.

 

[siringo]

I didnt mention the Forester, but regardless of the make from what i believe all "AWD" with no transfer case is considered a "soft roader"

Yep, gotta agree with that. No low range and you're not serious.

You need the added torque provided by low range when going up hill and the engine braking when going down hill, that's when the 'serious' stuff starts happening.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

I used to go with the ladder chassis, transfer case and dual range as being needed to avoid the soft roader tag but I pretty much ignore whether a 4x4 gas a ladder chassis these days.

The new Range Rover doesn't, the Pajero doesn't, the Prado only has a partial one, the Jeep Grand Cherokee doesn't and there are probably more. Some of those are better off road than some utes that do have ladder chassis.

I'd say these days that a bare minimum would be dual range and a transfer case and ignore how the body is built (as long as it's strong who really cares?).