Switch back to Single Mass Flywheel Clutch from Dual Mass .. 2007 D40 Navara ST-X SPAIN VSK

[bringthenav]

Looking at the Switch back to Single Mass Flywheel Clutch... from a Dual Mass.

Q: Is it as simple as buying a OEM/Heavy Duty clutch kit with Solid Flywheel,
and it will be a direct bolt on?

Q: Possible to pick up a solid single mass flywheel only & bolt that on & combine with the existing pressure plate & xfer case if theyre not even worn down??
I have looked online alot & so far cant seem to just find just a flywheel, only kits including them.




Sorry, i havent fitted clutches personally before.. so i am not aware if its a straight swap between Dual Mass and Solid Mass,
though i just spoke to a friend at new year who is a mechanic,
and he reckons its just a straight swap, and uses same bolt holes etc etc.. to bolt a SOLID single mass flywheel clutch kit on.

History:
*Looks like my 2nd dual mass flywheel clutch has failed.
*Total slipping, undriveable. Got progressively worse every drive over maybe 6 weeks.
*wasnt real noticeable until it was, then rapidly got worse every drive.
*This is 2nd time a dual mass clutch has gone on me.
*First Dual Mass Clutch went just after i bought it at just over 20,000km after it was fitted by prev owner.
*Truck came with a receipt for $3300 inc fitting for that
*I had the Clutch replaced with another Dual Mass Flywheel Heavy Duty Clutch kit at a shop asking for an Exedy. Cost me $2500 fitted.
*I notice recently the receipt states the Flywheel was machined (On a dual mass !!!??!!? That could be why its failed now if its worn down too much to contact the clutch plate)
*After 28,000km a component of the replaced Dual Mass Clutch i paid $2500 has apparently failed (I suspect could be just the flywheel itself)
*Shop wont come to the party as theres only 12month manufacturer wty on parts & its been 17 months.
*Silly me going for another Dual Mass, but i didnt know they suck.. one my mates reckons their better, another mechanic mate reckons theyre Sh*t in his words.
*Should listened to the mechanic mate, though he didnt tell me why he thinks that when i asked, must not been in mood to explain.
*On other posts i since researched here on Navaraforum, i have seen multiple comments dual masses are NOT GOOD
*Latest Clutch never burned, never ridden, never smelling clutch smells (only ever smelled it one time reversing up a steep driveway)

 

[landmannnn]

If you have a read through the Exedy website, they talk about how their single mass flywheel and clutch assembly have been designed to emulate a dual mass without the downsides.
Whilst not the only manufacturer of dual mass replacements, they seem to be the one of choice.
In other words, you need to get full set rather than just the flywheel.

 

[tweak'e]

If you have a read through the Exedy website, they talk about how their single mass flywheel and clutch assembly have been designed to emulate a dual mass without the downsides.

actually exedy state
"While the SMF
system is a popular choice, it’s
important to note that despite the
durability and price advantages, the
SMF systems do not possess the same
dampening characteristics as a DMF"
https://www.exedy.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pdf/TN047.pdf

there is no way you can replicate the dampening effect with a single mass clutch, otherwise every OEM would be doing it.
single mass can cause vibration issues with engine and gearbox. it may just be a noise thing or it could cause bearing issues, its your risk.

 

[tweak'e]

also note : https://www.exedy.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pdf/Tech Note 055.pdf
Please note, it is possible to incorrectly locate this Dual
Mass Flywheel on the crankshaft. To ensure correct
positioning of the flywheel, please ensure that the
arrow (See figure 1) is aligned with the crankshaft
dowel during installation.

 

[bringthenav]

also note : https://www.exedy.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pdf/Tech Note 055.pdf
Please note, it is possible to incorrectly locate this Dual
Mass Flywheel on the crankshaft. To ensure correct
positioning of the flywheel, please ensure that the
arrow (See figure 1) is aligned with the crankshaft
dowel during installation.

That wont matter for me when i never go a dual mass ever again after 2 failures at 20k and 28k (both professionally shop fitted), however thats great info and its always possible even a shop could made the mistake if they dont fit clutches much and didnt know this about the dmf hole and down u r mentioning. Certainly consistent with the clutch slipping so much theres no clutch after such low kms i have experienced. I point out again, ive never rode the clutch or burned it, and never smelt a thing of clutch burn, its justy almost gotta be the flywheel going out in my mind

 

[bringthenav]

also note : https://www.exedy.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pdf/Tech Note 055.pdf
Please note, it is possible to incorrectly locate this Dual
Mass Flywheel on the crankshaft. To ensure correct
positioning of the flywheel, please ensure that the
arrow (See figure 1) is aligned with the crankshaft
dowel during installation.

Hey @tweak'e ... do you or does anyone else here know if 'any other' clutches including Single mass, heavy duty, Oem etc can be incorrectly located on the Crankshaft?

I gotta wonder & it sounds so major important.
I can't help but wonder if the both Dual Mass clutches professionally fitted to mine failed due to that fitting error.

One that came with the Truck when i got it completely slipped on me at 21k & the replacement i had fitted.. at 28k.

 

[tweak'e]

just looking in the manual, it looks like the dowel is to make sure its aligned right for the crankshaft sensor. if thats out the injection timing will be a mile out.

for slipping i would be checking brand, check for oil (rear engine seal or to much grease on the starter teeth) or debris. if you drive through water and use the clutch, you can get crap in-between the surfaces.
make sure its the right pressure plate and the arm has enough travel.

 

[bringthenav]

just looking in the manual, it looks like the dowel is to make sure its aligned right for the crankshaft sensor. if thats out the injection timing will be a mile out.

for slipping i would be checking brand, check for oil (rear engine seal or to much grease on the starter teeth) or debris. if you drive through water and use the clutch, you can get crap in-between the surfaces.
make sure its the right pressure plate and the arm has enough travel.

well it drives well so it couldnt be ignition timing.
i don't know what brand til i have a shop drop the box out to change it sadly i dont know how to do myself or have a suitable place to get a friend who does to help do ourselves.
Its supposed to be an Exedy HD DMF that o asked for.
I dont have any oil dropping,
i dont have debris in there as it hasnt been offroad or water since fitment.

I did investigate the slave piston going into the arm? u mean clutch fork right... ? and i tried a mock up slave piston bolt that was a bit shorter, and one that was a bit longer.
Made no difference when i tested it in the driveway all i did was slip and slowly crawl around when revving the crap out of it and dropping the clutch... could barely park it again i had so much slip .. its so gone the truck wouldnt even make it up my 5m sloped driveway anymore ! The shorter bolt (i think .. it was ages ago i tested this.. i think was the one that didnt make a difference.. and the other bit longer one made it hard to select gears, and still made no difference as well... so i put the original slave piston bolt back in the slave.. and went back to the drawing board.

I was definitely hoping and wondering perhaps just some in car pedal adjustment (not tried, dont know what to try exactly), or that bolt might be enough to be back on road .

Any hints off any of you how to maybe adjust the on car clutch pedal would be ace??

(That is if there's any point) .. as i think the bolt thing i tried might do the same thing??

 

[tweak'e]

yes clutch fork. just to make sure there is no binding issues and the clutch can engage fully.
something we had issues with back in the day with clutch conversions on toyotas.
common trick was to put washers under the fork pivot point. some extended the fork or slave rod. or get the right bearing.

otherwise i would be looking at what got damaged, whats worn. is it a material problem.
its not the first time i've heard bad things about exedy clutches in 4wd's.

 

[bringthenav]

I also tried putting a heavy toolbox pushing the clutch pedal all way down on it, and looking under car at the slave piston bolt and fork, and it was moved a fair way .. i think i have pics attached of this in an earlier reply, if you scroll up and find em.

No idea myself how far the fork should sit when its pressed in .. in relation to the position in the hole going into the clutch housing,
but with the 2 different mock up bolts i tested,
i came to the conclusion there must be no trouble with the stock slave bolt pin thing going far enough,or short enough,
as i can select gears just fine and use the clutch and drop it just fine (even drops fine now, despite the slip afterwards in gear)

One thing i note that does make me suss all along since i got it back with a new clutch fitted (and on the clutch that came with it)...
is i have some sorta fairly quiet chattery noise in Neutral with it running that goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed down !

My mate noticed that when i first showed him the truck when i bought it, and he said my clutch is on the way out.

Well i had that noise come back very soon after i got the new clutch, maybe as loud within a year and of course at 16 months i lost this new clutch to same slipping & the mechanic who fitted it simply washes their hands of me since parts only come with a 12 month warranty!

So i am quite pissed off about the whole affair !

One last bit of info for you guys...
re clutch pedal travel !!...
Is it normal that i can always select other gears (and that noise goes away) when i only press the clutch around half way or bit more to the floor !!!!???????!!!???

 

[bringthenav]

I also tried putting a heavy toolbox pushing the clutch pedal all way down on it, and looking under car at the slave piston bolt and fork, and it was moved a fair way .. i think i have pics attached of this in an earlier reply, if you scroll up and find em.

No idea myself how far the fork should sit when its pressed in .. in relation to the position in the hole going into the clutch housing,
but with the 2 different mock up bolts i tested,
i came to the conclusion there must be no trouble with the stock slave bolt pin thing going far enough,or short enough,
as i can select gears just fine and use the clutch and drop it just fine (even drops fine now, despite the slip afterwards in gear)

One thing i note that does make me suss all along since i got it back with a new clutch fitted (and on the clutch that came with it)...
is i have some sorta fairly quiet chattery noise in Neutral with it running that goes away when the clutch pedal is pressed down !

My mate noticed that when i first showed him the truck when i bought it, and he said my clutch is on the way out.

Well i had that noise come back very soon after i got the new clutch, maybe as loud within a year and of course at 16 months i lost this new clutch to same slipping & the mechanic who fitted it simply washes their hands of me since parts only come with a 12 month warranty!

So i am quite pissed off about the whole affair !

One last bit of info for you guys...
re clutch pedal travel !!...
Is it normal that i can always select other gears (and that noise goes away) when i only press the clutch around half way or bit more to the floor !!!!???????!!!???

This other thread has pics of the piston travel.
I think i opened a 2nd sorry out of frustration as no one was really replying except @tweak'e

https://www.navaraforum.com/threads/dual-mass-flywheel-clutch-gone-at-14-000km-for-2nd-time.40426/

 

[bringthenav]

If i could solve this with just playing around with in car pedal travel adjustment somehow i would dance a jig and post a video of me doing it in front of the Navara though i dont hold much hope anything can be done but replacing the clutch again

 

[bringthenav]

If i could solve this with just playing around with in car pedal travel adjustment somehow i would dance a jig and post a video of me doing it in front of the Navara though i dont hold much hope anything can be done but replacing the clutch again

I replaced the Clutch & Flywheel with a Exedy Black series heavy duty SMF Full kit with new Flywheel on advice from my mechanic, who advises hard against EVER machining Flywheeld (if not maybe once, if u have enough bulk thickness meat left so it works without slipping for a long time)

Turned out my Exedy Black HD kit fitted last time, with an Old unknown Flywheel in it machined that only lasted 28,000 had a Clutch pro flywheel in it, that former owner probably had fitted either new or machined when they did the clutch a year n a half (unknown kms on paperwork) before i bought it.

Couple hundred km into driving running in the new Clutch and Flywheel, everything A OK

Heres hoping being all new, lasts for years.