new to forum and a handling question

[tarnowski1]

Hi All,
obviously I'm new to forum and after a bit of advice/suggestions,

here is the situation,

jan 2010 I managed to flip my D22 Navara (edit- if it makes a difference its a 2 door King Cab) on its side on black ice while going up a hill! naff all damage really, couple of dented panels (landed on the grass verge) Anyway here's the issue,

since the accident the Navara handles like an utter pig in wet/snowy conditions. When I say wet I mean just damp roads. The back end just feels like it wants to slip out to the side. In even light snow 4x4 is mandatory otherwise it feels like a dodgem.

The chasis geometry been checked, wheel alignment, suspension and steering have all been checked out by a Nissan mechanic (that I trust), Nothing.

Handling is far better with a full tank of diesal but drops off significantly after we get below 2/3 of a tank. Handling also seems marginally better with 60KG plus load in back over rear axle.

The only thing that is obviously different from before the accident is the tyres which are now standard bridgestone duellers. Could the tyres be the cause?

any thoughts/hints greatly appreciated.

Regards
Matt

 

[KraftyPg]

Welcome to the forums Matt, I guess you're not from Australia if your talking about snow this time of year, we've had it cold here but only mountainous areas have had snow this christmas.

We used to use BS duellers on the F series utes and with little to no load they were always very taily in the wet and damp conditions but that probably had more to do with us and a V8 engine than the tyres. We also spent years running duelers on Land Cruisers and while a little more taily than with other tyres on we learnt to live with it because the tyres suited us in other conditions.

 

[Leprechaun]

From what you describing it sounds more serious than just tyres, I think it could be something wrong with the rear diff, possibly damaged the LSD during the roll over??

 

[tarnowski1]

From what you describing it sounds more serious than just tyres, I think it could be something wrong with the rear diff, possibly damaged the LSD during the roll over??

ta, I'll mention it to my friendly mechanic, what's odd though is in dry conditions she handles like a dream, tops a 100mph without any issues and manouvres well. Wet roads I'll not take it over 60 unless I've load in as otherwise its totally taily.

It went into the ice slide at 30mph, spun 180 degrees, hit the kerb bang on so both passenger side wheels hit at the same time and gracefully and slowly tipped on to its side. Wheel damage was confined to popped tyres and dented rims.

Regards
Matt

 

[tarnowski1]

ta, your right, currently residing in the UK but was born in the Solomon Islands, thanks to my Dad deciding to take a surveying job there 2 months before I was due and my Mum deciding it'd be fun....... we then spend the next 10 years meandered our way across the globe back to the UK. 28 years back in the UK and I still can't get used to the damp cold weather here!

as to the truck, I'm at a loss, good as gold if its dry, drunk sailor if wet. Still love it though, gets the job done and takes my 6' 2" (wide and tall) frame with ease.

have a good holidays.

Regards
Matt

Welcome to the forums Matt, I guess you're not from Australia if your talking about snow this time of year, we've had it cold here but only mountainous areas have had snow this christmas.

We used to use BS duellers on the F series utes and with little to no load they were always very taily in the wet and damp conditions but that probably had more to do with us and a V8 engine than the tyres. We also spent years running duelers on Land Cruisers and while a little more taily than with other tyres on we learnt to live with it because the tyres suited us in other conditions.

 

[biggazza]

Sounds like you need a set of chains for your tyres mate.

 

[Dave]

Still got the original shocks ?

If so there deathtraps, throw them in the bin and get some Bilstiens or Koni's.

Dave.

 

[scottybobcat]

I would also take it to a panel beater and put it on a rack and check all of the standard settings made by Nissan.Hitting a gutter side on could have bent the diff and body mounts therefore throwing the alignment out in the rear.

 

[WoodyD40]

Certainly sounds like tyres to me - but i also would not be too quick to doubt double checking the advise from the other guys who have posted. A little bit out here and there and perhaps slipery tyres - add it all up, and its a potentially a dangerous combination.

good luck, and welcome to the forum.

 

[Old.Tony]

I've only ONCE had Bridgestone Desert Duellers on a car and I'll never do it again. Bridgestone tyres on my motorbikes should have taught me a lesson but I stupidly tried these because they were a good deal at the time. Never, never, ever again. Slippery pieces of shit if there's as much as a spit on the road, they'll never see the rims of my car ever.

But that might not be your entire problem. Under the tub is a load-sensing device that manipulates the brakes under a heavy load (increases the rear braking force). You don't indicate if it's taily under acceleration or braking, so if it's under braking I'd be checking this to make sure it's perfectly set up.

You may also have LSD damage. Smacking the axle end-on could easy punch something inside the diff itself. Check the diff oil for fragments.

 

[Dave]

Good point Tony, mine use to be outright dangerous with the original Bridgestones.

The Coopers hang on well.

Dave.

 

[Old.Tony]

I'm going to be hunting for tyres soon, the factory Continentals are pretty thin now.

I've shortlisted the choices to BF Goodrich All-Terrains, Mickey Thompsons and Maxxis all-terrains (in that order). There's not a snowball's chance in hell I'll risk my family's life on Bridgestone tyres. I'd put Hankooks on it first. Or retreads.

Coopers are out, I hear they chip a bit and I don't need that sort of problem. I've not heard anything bad about the BFGs, so I'm aiming for those - but I'm happy to be guided on this issue. Maybe the chipping only happens in certain conditions (eg forest roads).

 

[Dave]

I hardly ever let the tyres down on my Nav or check the tyre pressure and I get 70,000km's out of them.

Had no chipping with the 2 sets I have had.

Dave.

 

[tarnowski1]

Thanks all for taking the time to post on this. Sorry I haven't replied sooner, just spent the week digging a hijacker out of my PC. B*stards should be used to explode IED's

anyway to answer a few of the points

- It's taily under acceleration in the wet. It also has moments while cruising at a steady speed depending on how much water is on the road or if the road surface is uneven.

- no problems when braking normally, haven't had to try hard on though.

- LSD, its done 14,000 miles since the prang so I'm kinda assuming if it was damaged it'd have destroyed itself by now or at least developed some horrible noise. That said its usually taily in the same direction almost always feels like the passenger side rear is trying to slip out to its side (as in move towards the kerb, hard shoulder, edge of road)

Out of interest does any one know what type of compound the bridgestone tyres are? I ask as I did two identical journeys two days on the trot. First a smidge over zero degree Celsius road temperature and raining. never topped 40 and back end felt like it was disconnected and all over the shop. Day two, 9 degrees road temp and raining, not a problem, comfortably cruised along at 60+ and felt perfectly safe. Loads in both cases were identical.

Cheers
Matt

 

[Dave]

Pull your shocks out and see what they do.

There probably stuffed.

Dave.

 

[Pete-nav]

I'd say tyres, I had some cooper AT's on mine (never again) and in the wet / damp i could 4th gear powerslide at over 80km/hr up off ramps or on slight bends in the road, often unwanted slides, even off the power (very dangerous). Same as you say less fuel in the tank the worse is was, in the dry they were ok. Probably 50% tread on em.

I Put some Bighorns on and cant spin the buggers or slide em unless i really get keen.

 

[tarnowski1]

Hi all,
thought I'd update this. Not really used the truck since Christmas as been piling the miles on a work car. Last week been using it heavily and not good.

So took the plunge and swapped out all 4 bridgestone duelers for General AT2's and OMG I now know what grip and handling actually are!

not completely solved the problem but at least I now have confidence the truck's not going to 180 on me into a barrier or ditch.

decent tyres have allowed a better feel for what the truck's doing. She's still off on the steering,

turn or gently glide into a right hand bend and its effortless and requires very little turn on the steering wheel and V smooth.

turn or glide into a left hand bend and more effort required and feels choppy, almost like a wheel is skipping or dragging.

- noticed in 4x4 mode at very slow speeds < 5 MPH if you turn quite hard to the left truck pretty much stops and would stall out if you didn't depress the clutch, won't move forward again until you straighten up the steering a bit. Doesn't do it to the right though.

- no drift in a straight line though, can take my hands off the wheel and she'll go dead straight until the camber drifts her.

- no chop or judder on braking. suspension's a bit loose but been like that since I bought it.

any further thoughts, short of taking it into a field and putting a bullet in the beast.

Cheers
Matt

 

[Old.Tony]

Near as I can remember, every limited slip diff had a "favourite" wheel to let go. It's the one that would let go earlier in a turn.

Possibly that's what you're seeing here. The right rear is a little less inclined to slip, so in a hard left it binds up the front axle. Hope your transfer chain hasn't suffered too much, if the surface is causing binding like that, it's obviously got too much traction to warrant 4WD mode.

As for the tyres, no big surprise there. Like I said, Bridgestones are crap, I wouldn't put them on a politician's car. We had to bite the bullet and are now riding on BF Goodrich All-Terrains, 265-70s. Absolutely no complaints about them, road noise is barely discernible, steering is light yet positive and when pushed they are reluctant to let loose.

 

[Dave]

There is no centre diff. Only use 4wd when the tyres can slip.

Tar and concrete are way to grippy.

Only use 4wd when off the tar.

Have you checked the shockies ?

 

[tarnowski1]

Tony- performance diff between the duelers and the General AT2 is shocking, wouldn't have believed the bridgestones were that bad if I hadnt felt it for myself.

to quote the mechanic when I asked him if the duelers were omni directional- 'yep sh*t in all directions'

Dave (and others)- yep looks like the rear shocks are either shot or one is knackered. Had a full test, computer and the old bounce test run on it Friday. Somethings off on the back. What's interesting is post test the truck handled far better than it has done in months. lasted about three days, so I bounced up and down on all 4 corners and again handling is far better. looks like one of the rear shocks is sticking or not extending its normal range.

Cheers
Matt