Issues in the fuel line

[skippyjason]

Hi All

Had a crap experience a couple of days ago while helping a mate move from Sydney to Jindabyne.

I've recently bought a 2007 D40 which has a long range steel fuel tank (130L). On Monday night I filled it all the way for the first time since I got it 2 months ago.

Just past Golburn, it started missing going up hills, and then by Cooma it was missing pretty bad so I went into Nissan in Cooma.

They found that filling the tank had washed a lot of rust from the inside of the tank into the fuel line.

They replaced the filter, dumped out the fuel (and filtered it), dropped out the tank and washed it out and cleaned the fuel lines. They got me back on the road which was great - and I made it back to Sydney and the mechanic said I won't see the problem again for a long while... I was very grateful. The mechanic said the problem was there for a long time before I owned the car, but still to fill it all the way from now on.

Prior to cleaning out the dodgy fuel, he tested the injectors and they were firing all ok. He said the fuel filter had saved the injectors.

Anyway I got back to Sydney, but the past 2 mornings from a cold start the engine misses until I race it or take off. This morning I noticed a little bit of smoke. The engine idles fine and the boost is fine after I actually start moving.

I'm wondering if some crap has washed thru to the fuel rail after all, or if there's some other possible cause.. Anyone with similar experience? What's an injector worth if it's damaged (I think I heard they are $$$$)?

 

[nakedape]

Sorry to hear that you've had a shit run.

You could be right & the injectors are stuffed. But lets start with some cheaper options first. If Nissan have had fuel lines and filters apart, then there is a chance that they have not sealed properly and you are getting air in the system - this will sound and feel like an engine misfire. Search the forum for details regarding this - but as a quick check, look for the pump on top of the filter (not sure what it looks like on the D40), give a good pump. It should go hard relatively quickly - if it doesn't you need it investigate further (even if it does you may still be getting air in).

If an injector is stuffed there will be lots (and lots) of black smoke.

Good luck - keep us posted

 

[skippyjason]

Sorry to hear that you've had a shit run.

You could be right & the injectors are stuffed. But lets start with some cheaper options first. If Nissan have had fuel lines and filters apart, then there is a chance that they have not sealed properly and you are getting air in the system - this will sound and feel like an engine misfire. Search the forum for details regarding this - but as a quick check, look for the pump on top of the filter (not sure what it looks like on the D40), give a good pump. It should go hard relatively quickly - if it doesn't you need it investigate further (even if it does you may still be getting air in).

If an injector is stuffed there will be lots (and lots) of black smoke.

Good luck - keep us posted

Thanks for that. I have the D40 service manual and I noticed there was some advice on removing air from the system after the fuel lines had been off, and to use the pump on top of the filter.. the manual says its possible that air in the system could cause a misfire. But I'm not sure why after its doing that when cold as opposed to a warm start. Maybe overnight trapped air would work it's way to a point where it causes issues on a cold start. But I did definately read that trapped air could cause the issue.

As for the smoke - it was light coloured, and there wasn't a lot, and there was just an initial burst and it didn't continue.

This has happenned 2 times now, bot in the morning on a cold start. The 2nd time the problem resolved itself quicker.. I'm hoping that perhaps its residual issues, and will get better rather than worse.

Fingers crossed anyway.. I've already lined up my mechanic in Sydney and it will be going there if it continues after the next few mornings

 

[nakedape]

Maybe overnight trapped air...

My ZD30 had a crack in a fuel fitting - misfired in the mornings, not arvo. That was until I parked it with the nose facing uphill - then fuel 'drained' out & it wouldn't start.

I hope you get it sorted soon.

 

[Old.Tony]

Light coloured smoke only when cold may just be condensation being blown out. Look at the exhausts of petrol cars first thing in the morning.

My guess would be air in the line as well. A good blast rushes the bubble through and then all is good until the car sits for a while? That sounds like a leak on the inlet side of the fuel pump to me. It won't leak while driving, you won't be losing fuel anywhere at all, but the weight of the fuel in the line will suck air into the line at the leak point.

The primer bulb on the D40 is on the hose behind the fuel pump. It's about the size of a matchbox and has a bulb on one face. It should take no more than 5-6 squeezes to get it firm. If you get more then air is the natural suspect.

The fuel lines will have to come off the inlet side of the pump and the filter, clean the faces and reinstall them after checking the fuel hose for cracks.

I doubt the injectors would have worn any large particles. Some of the rust would have dissolved in the diesel and those particles may have been small enough to pass through the filter - but whether those particles would actually damage the injector like water droplets would is another thing - and I think unlikely (we're talking about dissolved ferrous oxide!). In that, the Nissan tech was probably right.

Please get back to us with the result!

 

[skippyjason]

The crap run is never ending

Ok.. so since my last post my run of bad luck has continued. Im pulling my hair out... and I need some advice as to where to take my vehicle in Sydney.

so.. after my first experience, and a recap;

- On a long trip (to Jindabyne), the vehicle was losing power and surging. In Cooma Nissan they cleaned out my fuel tank, and replaced the filter, and they said all was sweet from then on

- Then over Christmas I drove from Sydney to Gosford and I noticed some surging / missing.. while I was up in Gosford the truck basically had no power driving around, or would surge badly. It had to be towed to Nissan in Gosford. They replaced the suction control valve. All good for a time...

- Past couple of weeks I've noticed that when I am in a higher rev range it misses, but only sometimes.. It's not consistent. Sometimes at about 3.5k revs the surge is so bad its like kangaroo hopping on the clutch. That only happens in 3rd and 4th gear. This evening I looked in the mirror and on the gear change I thought there was smoke..

I don't know if the problem is slowly creeping back.. but I am thoroughly disheartened that I still have this problem.

I don't know if Nissan can't diagnose it right, or if there's a combination of things which go wrong after a period of time. My gut feeling is that this vehicle is so over complicated in terms of electronics and it makes the problem too hard to diagnose.. even on the Nissan propriety computing equipment.

I guess what I am looking for is some advice if there is anywhere in Sydney I can take my vehicle and have someone diagnose the issue correctly. I've a lack of confidence now in taking it to a Nissan dealership and getting a hit and miss result

Any suggestions?

 

[FatBoy89]

Did Nissan say it threw any codes at all? When you mechanic remove the Injextors for testing did he fit new injector tubes? They are a one time use part. They have a press fit and only good for once use.
Could be leaking out of one of these tubes.

 

[nathand22]

where about in Sydney are you?
There are a few very good diesel specialists that i know out west and then in Narellan and finally not far from me in Berrima.

 

[skippyjason]

Did Nissan say it threw any codes at all? When you mechanic remove the Injextors for testing did he fit new injector tubes? They are a one time use part. They have a press fit and only good for once use.
Could be leaking out of one of these tubes.

I am not sure. I was told the injector pressure was fine. Would Nissan keep a record of the computer reports from previous work done?

I am in Beecroft

 

[Old.Tony]

Sorry to hear the problems haven't been resolved.

The surging could EASILY be the turbocharger actuator. It may not show a code for this problem, the actuator will just go stupid and pump heaps of air in (overboost) then shut it all down. At other times it won't boost at all, so it'll feel like limp mode.

I don't see how fuel could do that, I don't know why they wasted your time and theirs.

 

[skippyjason]

Thanks.. Its just so intermittent and random.. At times the surge is very pronounced, while at other times I think there could be a small flutter but it's so small Im not sure that its the road surface..

So.. ideas of where I should take it to diagnose the problem?

 

[Old.Tony]

Personally I'd take it to Nissan and tell them to check the actuator.

I suppose it is also possible that your fuel rail pressure sensor is also reading incorrectly. If it's under-reading the pressure, the ECU will command a higher rail pressure which results in more fuel squirted in. This is, in fact, how some "performance chips" work. An intermittent electrical contact on that (or IN that, faulty component) might produce a similar result.

But we've had people with bodgey turbo actuators before, so I'm betting on that one based on the symptoms described so far.

 

[skippyjason]

Thanks Tony.. will try them and post how i go

 

[skippyjason]

OK Update.

So I went back to my mechanic who I trust and he sent me to a diesel specialist he trusts who tried to find the issue.. But they said the computer picked up nothing and they didnt have the equipment to analyse the turbo. They suggested the Neutral switch may be causing the issue because it was at a specific rev range.. I should note that I managed to replicate the problem for them twice in about 5 attempts (it's a real bugger).

So they ended up disconnecting the neutral switch and then they said they couldn't replicate the problem and I should drive it around. So Ive taken it back and driven it a few times and I can't seem to make the problem occur. So fingers crossed.

HOWEVER... I'm going away this long weekend so I thought tonight I'd throw it into 4WD to check it was going in and out ok (I hadn't done that for a while). It goes in and out of 4HI no problems, but trying to put it into 4LO it won't go in, the light on the dash for 4LO flashes but there's no change (I waited for some time). Is it possible the disconnection of the neutral switch is preventing it from going into 4LO?

I should point out that I asked the diesel specialist what the neutral switch was for and he couldnt tell me.. so now Im wondering if this is causing an issue?

 

[nathand22]

OK Update.

So I went back to my mechanic who I trust and he sent me to a diesel specialist he trusts who tried to find the issue.. But they said the computer picked up nothing and they didnt have the equipment to analyse the turbo. They suggested the Neutral switch may be causing the issue because it was at a specific rev range.. I should note that I managed to replicate the problem for them twice in about 5 attempts (it's a real bugger).

So they ended up disconnecting the neutral switch and then they said they couldn't replicate the problem and I should drive it around. So Ive taken it back and driven it a few times and I can't seem to make the problem occur. So fingers crossed.

HOWEVER... I'm going away this long weekend so I thought tonight I'd throw it into 4WD to check it was going in and out ok (I hadn't done that for a while). It goes in and out of 4HI no problems, but trying to put it into 4LO it won't go in, the light on the dash for 4LO flashes but there's no change (I waited for some time). Is it possible the disconnection of the neutral switch is preventing it from going into 4LO?

I should point out that I asked the diesel specialist what the neutral switch was for and he couldnt tell me.. so now Im wondering if this is causing an issue?

I would say that is whats stopping it from going into low.

The reason being, is that the car MUST be in NEUTRAL in order to go into 4LOW,
if the car is in gear or thinks its in gear, the symbol on the dash will just flash forever until Neutral is selected.

So with the switch disconnected the ECU has no way of knowing if its in or out of gear.

I would be grabbing a new switch from Nissan and swapping them over.

 

[Old.Tony]

+1 on the new NPS. 4LO must be engaged with the gearbox in neutral and your foot on the brake and without the NPS in, the car can't tell and won't proceed with the change to 4LO.

 

[skippyjason]

Yeah that was the issue.. Reconnected the neutral switch and it went into 4LO without dramas.

Back to the original problem, I can't get it to occur now.. so Im wondering what's happened. They pulled the fuel filter off and cleared the sump.. but thats all apart from disconnecting the NPS.. Im doing a trip tomorrow so Im just hoping there's no issues. Thanks for the comments so far I really appreciate it.

 

[gbu]

Had a bit of that going on, the dealer reckons they took a heap of water out of the filter, runs better now especially if I add Fuel Doctor. Think I may have air getting in somewhere because it is a bit intermittent with the fault still. Gave my wife a rough drive home the other day, no power and stalling, then when I took it for a spin, no issues. Runs rough at idle on start up some days, but when I stripped the bottom of the filter, there was bugger all water in it. Doesn't instill much confidence for long runs or off roading.

 

[skippyjason]

Greetings all.. time for an update.

Summary is the problem is still persisting, but perhaps its narrowed down a bit. My car spent some time at the local Nissan dealership and they put the computer on it to test the pressure at various points through the fuel system and good news is the rail and injectors are ok (and the suction control valve).

However they took a fuel sample and flushed the fuel lines behind the fuel filter, and it cleared the problem for several weeks. Now the problem has come back. There's either some blockage in the hoses, or an issue with sediment (rust) in the tank itself.

It has an aftermarket long range tank on it, but I don't know who the manufacturer is as I bought the vehicle 2nd hand.

I'd like to take the vehicle to someone who is good at fitting after market tanks who could drop the tank and fix the issue between the intake and the filter.. I'm in NW or Sydney (Hornsby area). Any suggestions?

 

[Old.Tony]

There was some talk of the Opposite Lock tanks rusting internally. With a near-empty tank, an inspection camera would help.