Difficulty Manually Turning Hubs.

[OneMofo]

Hey guys and gals,

Yes im here seeking advice once again, Have a a mate with an 03 D22, after a drive out at Menai the other day have found it difficult to turn the hubs both into and out of lock, i have pulled apart the hubs myself and they seem fine, all bearings are in place and no excess grease inside (grease is still pretty fresh), any ideas what it maybe, it wasnt doing it before hand and is still doing it after i pulled them apart to have a look. had to get a pair of plyers and turn the hub to free wheel it. Its only difficult in the last 1/3 of a turn the rest is very easy. Could it be the hubs themselves??
It has quite a bit of CV angle as its lifted quite a bit and have noted it has no bump stops (which we will fix soon), its running 33'" Calmini steering upgrade, Calmini UCA`s and a front auto Lokka.
When i free wheel the front two wheels while off the ground there is a bit of play before the wheels start to grip, now while the hubs are disenguaged if i physically turn one of the front wheels the short shaft from the transfer case still move with it, is this normal?? cant say iv been under these things while moving shite around, plus i struggle to get my head around the whole Lokka concept till i get mine installed so i have little experience whith auto Lokkas.

Cheers in advance.

 

[nathand22]

The hub must not be disengaging if the axle is still turning.
Did you look at the shim stack in the hub assembly? is the spring intact? they can snap.

 

[OneMofo]

The hub must not be disengaging if the axle is still turning.
Did you look at the shim stack in the hub assembly? is the spring intact? they can snap.

Thats what i initially thought but by the time i had the Hub off it was getting late and too dark to continue plus i had a few beers by then.
I heard the clicking noise from the Lokka when we pulled up for a feed which tells me its still enguaged.
There is a spring?? if you mean inside the hub once removed then yeah it was pressing and releasing easily provided you pushed down evenly. Circlip was intact all seemed fine and i couldnt notice anything out of place.
off road it was a weapon i know that much and it seemed to operate fine while 4x4ing. this is the first time we have had it out for a drive in 4x4 since purchase so it was a test day and did performed remakably well.

 

[OneMofo]

It feels easy to turn 2/3rds of the way then gets grainy and difficult when you go from free to lock then the same in reverse when going from lock to free, though it doesnt seem to have disenguaged at all.

 

[nathand22]

Lokka wil click when disengaging, when engaged you wont hear it.

The Lokka if it a 4WD SYSTEMS unit and not a detroit it is always locked, it only unlocks when the ground force is different between the two wheels, for this to happen there must be no torque from the drive shaft/engine.
As soon as force is applied via the drive shaft the unit will lock and the harder you hit the go peddle the harder the unit locks, to unlock you need to be of the gas and turning a corner.

 

[nathand22]

It feels easy to turn 2/3rds of the way then gets grainy and difficult when you go from free to lock then the same in reverse when going from lock to free, though it doesnt seem to have disenguaged at all.

If the axle is turning its not unlocking at all

 

[OneMofo]

Lokka wil click when disengaging, when engaged you wont hear it.

The Lokka if it a 4WD SYSTEMS unit and not a detroit it is always locked, it only unlocks when the ground force is different between the two wheels, for this to happen there must be no torque from the drive shaft/engine.
As soon as force is applied via the drive shaft the unit will lock and the harder you hit the go peddle the harder the unit locks, to unlock you need to be of the gas and turning a corner.

i have no idea where its from to be honest, i did hear it clicking at one stage but when pulling into my drive way which is a tight turn there was no clicking. he didnt have any adverse steering while driving on road.
Ahh i see what your saying, gas = control of lokka activation (depending steering).
But with the hubs dis-enguaged shouldnt that stop it from turning at all.

 

[OneMofo]

Lokka wil click when disengaging, when engaged you wont hear it.

The Lokka if it a 4WD SYSTEMS unit and not a detroit it is always locked, it only unlocks when the ground force is different between the two wheels, for this to happen there must be no torque from the drive shaft/engine.
As soon as force is applied via the drive shaft the unit will lock and the harder you hit the go peddle the harder the unit locks, to unlock you need to be of the gas and turning a corner.

the short shifter is out of 4wd so shouldnt be receiving drive at all.
Sorry mate still getting my head around the whole setup, plus im back on nights so tired as shite on the upside i get to find out if im redundant after work tomorrow morning.

 

[nathand22]

it should but you have one hub that is not disengaging.

You should only hear it while its in 4x4 and hubs locked.

 

[nathand22]

the short shifter is out of 4wd so shouldnt be receiving drive at all.

no it wont be BUT it always locked so if you have hubs that are still engaged it will be unlocking and locking all the time.

Remember the unit sits there in a locked state 24/7 it only unlocks if the ground force alters between wheels, so if the axle is spinning its applying ground force regardless of the transfer

 

[OneMofo]

Ahh i see so at least one hub is not disenguaging or both, they are both doing the same thing at the same point in the turn which i find strange, i did see somewhere last night you can get Warn hubs from the US for like $130 maybe worth the investment. To be clear that short shaft shouldnt turn if the hubs are unlocked is that right??

 

[nathand22]

Ahh i see so at least one hub is not disenguaging or both, they are both doing the same thing at the same point in the turn which i find strange, i did see somewhere last night you can get Warn hubs from the US for like $130 maybe worth the investment. To be clear that short shaft shouldnt turn if the hubs are unlocked is that right??

thats right mate, the hub isolates the axle from the wheel

 

[OneMofo]

Checked the hubs out again, still acting very strange. The hubs will still only turn 2/3 of the distance between free and lock, but when it's sitting at the limit (as far towards lock as possible) it remains locked (with wheels off the ground), when turned back to free it still remains locked, the passenger even sits free when turning wheel forward (but click like it almost catching) but locked in reverse. (Has auto Lokka in front too) so now confused and will have it lookedat by a pro.

Spring seems ok and quite strong. I put those hubs on my ute and they worked fine, I put mine on his ute and still did the same thing (locked 2/3 of the way).
I placed the hubs on but not screwed in and it seems when they reach the 2/3 limit the whole locking hub wants to push off the wheel hub, as in it can't travel further into the hub when locking hence the stoppage at 2/3 the way.
Any have an idea??

 

[OneMofo]

Well we took the ute to a specialist and turns out they also think it's the hubs. After fitting a set of newer hubs, has the same issue. Now I'm thinking it bye CV Joints, possibly the CVs are Faarrked and pushing outwards some what and stopping the hubs from disengaging, anyone have another idea??

 

[bods]

I'd say you're on the right track... if there is too much spline from the cv joint protruding into where the hub mounts it won't be able to push the locking ring into position. ...

Can you compare how much spline is exposed on his vs yours?

 

[nathand22]

when you pull the hub off are all the splines on the axle perfect? are there any burs at all ?

im not exactly sure about the D22 set up, BUT on the spindle is there a plate or clip that holds the cv and axle in place to keep it located and the axle in the diff stopping it from pushing out? If there is is that still intact and straight?

how about the axle, can the axle form the v6 petrol diff mistakenly be put in the diesel diff? are they the same or are they slightly different?

 

[OneMofo]

The CVs between the V6 and the diesels are the same Nath except the 2.7 models (or so I'm lead to believe).
It all seems straight and but free but am going to pull the CVs out on Saturday and have a full inspection.
Bods I will do just that, I think they have used a different CV and cut back the shaft that protrudes out the hub into the locking hub, it looked cut at the end.
All parts are there though, the circlip is in place, I have a spare at home I'm going to compare it too for length etc, I'm thinking they are aftermarket and slightly different, possibly cut short even.


Atleast they are locked in for muster.

 

[RustyNav09]

I had a dead similar issue. But I heard it go. Couldn't lock or unlock the hub unless I had pliers. Ended up I had stripped the internals. My mechanics reshimmed the hub and it work until I was able to get the new set in. New avm hubs and handles the ELocker without fuss. If they do let go I'll install the avm hd hubs.

Rusty

 

[OneMofo]

I had a dead similar issue. But I heard it go. Couldn't lock or unlock the hub unless I had pliers. Ended up I had stripped the internals. My mechanics reshimmed the hub and it work until I was able to get the new set in. New avm hubs and handles the ELocker without fuss. If they do let go I'll install the avm hd hubs.



Rusty

How can you tell if the internals are stripped?? Is it the 28 splines or something u can't see unless the locking hubs are pulled apart??

 

[nathand22]

How can you tell if the internals are stripped?? Is it the 28 splines or something u can't see unless the locking hubs are pulled apart??

the catch to this situation is that you put a hub on that is working on your car and it did the same thing on his car, so that basically rules out the hubs especially when you put the hub back onto your rig it worked fine once again, its all pointing to an issue deeper then the hub itself.