Biodiesel

[tatty]

So, in WA, Gull service stations sell the B20 (hybrid 20% biodiesel to 80 diesel) fuel. I've run it in the d21 td27 for a couple months now since it's those few cents cheaper. Performance is exactly the same and haven't noticed anything breaking due to the fuel.

Is anyone else running this, and what's their experiences?

 

[KraftyPg]

Not running Gull and in the D40 each time I have been to Perth I have avoided it purely because it hasn't had the testing in newer engines that the normal stuff has (despite some people telling us just how bad diesel in this country is which could make Bio a cleaner choice).

I have how ever experienced a lot more that 20% Bio in other diesel engines, my old boss used to make his own in the factory where we parked the trucks. In the trucks we had no real issues, 15-20K services depending on the truck, trucks running 10-14 hours a day 7 days a week and being pretty strung out too given their low power. In all he reckoned it was going to save him shitloads after the first 4 years or something. I left that job before the 4 years was up but other than being clean enough that we were able to refuel trucks in the same depot we packed food trucks in I had no real issues with it. Still not ready to run it in my Nav yet though.

 

[Bvandermaat]

I stay the hell away from it because of the "Black Death" that Diesel can get. It is a black algae that builds up on any water in diesel if it sits to long and then clogs fuel lines and injectors. Not for me thank you very much. All mines gets it "Premium" Diesel.

 

[KraftyPg]

That is part of the problem with Bio or blended fuels, in many cases they aren't as rigorously tested and many of the reports resulting in problems are from bio that's been made in a shed not the stuff that's available from the pump so it's hard to believe any of them 100%.

Premium in a fancy name for anti-foaming agent

 

[Bvandermaat]

Premium in a fancy name for anti-foaming agent

There isn't really any other kind of Diesel around my area. Mind you I only go to BP and Caltex. I am fussy with my diesel!

 

[Old.Tony]

Word has it that Caltex use some biodiesel in their mix - up to 5%, I believe. Possibly not at every location and for mixes up to 5% the legislation allows the vendor to not even mention that there's bio in it.

Christmas 2010 we filled up at Kings Creek Station and I can just imagine how many % of bio was in that ... yet it turned out to be the best fuel I'd ever used. I haven't had that good a fuel economy since.

I was once worried about the big bad boogey man and his can of chip-oil-fuel but for large suppliers like Gull, I don't think we should be as concerned about it. I doubt they're going to be sitting there wringing out the last drop of fat from their chiko rolls before scoffing the remainder and oops I dropped some cabbage in.

I do think the larger producers are making biodiesel that works better than Yoshi-grade (you have to think "Mario Bros"). It might be a higher cetane rating than fossil-based, it might just have less crap in it.

I really don't think Shell, BP, Caltex or anyone else are out to be our best mates. They just want us to buy their stuff, and if they can keep us running scared of the boogey-bio-man then their job is a little easier. At the same time, those manufacturing biodiesel for use in our market are going to do a fair job of making sure it's good enough to use - or at the very least does no damage and preferably makes the car go better.

Time will tell. I won't drive off and grab the first Big Mac I see and squeeze it into my tank, but I won't panic because I have to fill up with a mix of bio at a major outlet.

 

[fourocker]

I just filled up on Caltex Vortex premium diesel for the first time the other day and I have to say it's the best my Nav has gone for a while (except when I put a dose of two stroke in , that's another story though).
I'm not keen for bio diesel but if what you say is true (caltex has 5%) then I may have to re think.
Reading my own post it seems strange that I'm not keen on bio diesel but happily put two stroke in

 

[KraftyPg]

It's even stranger reading the heated debates about premium diesel on other forums. We might have a huge debate of the value or not of oil in diesel which seems to have originated on one girls experience when she claimed to be an expert in the field but never proved her credentials.

But other forums have the Premium v standard diesel debates, some claim massive improvements through it's use but there is just as many claiming no benefits. It's hard to perceive much difference when the general consensus seems to be that the only difference is the added anti-foaming agent, a theory which is boosted by the fact that they charge no more for a 'premium' product, but like all internet theories it all has to start somewhere and people will believe what they want to believe. For me unless premium is the same cost it's not a viable fuel source because I got not major benefits from it the times I have used it, but others will think differently.

However when it comes to Bio it's still the untested quality which makes me say 'not yet'. I agree with Tony that larger producers are probably making a better grade of it and really when you are only getting up to 20% of a blended fuel and 80% of what the rest of us get from the other bowser it's hard to say it's going to cause you any problems. It's only when you find pieces of chicko roll and chips in your fuel lines that you can really see problems occurring and United or Gull and unlikely to have that happen. While adding 5% blended mix to the pump diesel must save the fuel companies bucket loads, when 90% of the diesel population are using it and still going about their daily business and many of those people are unaware they are even doing it, it's hard to suggest a blended mix from any leading servo is going to be a huge drama.

 

[Geoff3DMN]

it's hard to suggest a blended mix from any leading servo is going to be a huge drama.

One potential issue is that some manufacturers warranty conditions have specific clauses relating to bio-diesel usage.

Mercedes for example won't warranty their heavy diesel motors if blended bio-diesel with greater than a certain percentage of bio-diesel is used.

 

[KraftyPg]

That's exactly right, it's the 'unknown' factor and until manufacturers are forced to warrant against Biodiesel use they wont, and I don't blame them really.

My mate works on Mercs, Volvos Hinos etc others and their idiot management signed a deal with United to supply all fuels without considering that United is using a blended mix and Merc have told them that because the fuel is coming from a "trusted" (obviously a term used loosely) supplier they will have no problems with warranty providing the fuel is always to the spec United say it is supposed to be at.

The DPF fitted Yota Coaster was a different story though, but that's not a story for the public domain as Yota were very naughty with that one.

 

[tatty]

I stay the hell away from it because of the "Black Death" that Diesel can get. It is a black algae that builds up on any water in diesel if it sits to long and then clogs fuel lines and injectors. Not for me thank you very much. All mines gets it "Premium" Diesel.

This would come from any diesel. In fact, bio diesel would probably have less water in it than regular.
And just how long is your car sitting there???

While adding 5% blended mix to the pump diesel must save the fuel companies bucket loads, when 90% of the diesel population are using it and still going about their daily business and many of those people are unaware they are even doing it, it's hard to suggest a blended mix from any leading servo is going to be a huge drama.

Technically, it should be the opposite. Pure bio diesel to maintain the same profit margin as regular diesel would be at around $1.70 per litre. They don't save money, but they can. They just juggle things left right and centre and find a way to knock a couple cents off. It's because they can neglect having pure/perfect bio when it's only at 20%. Not that it's bad, but it's not perfect.

All I can say, though, is that after running it for about 4-5 months, I haven't hit a single problem. If anything, there could be a slight performance improvement.

 

[Bakes]

Havent run Bio diesel in my Nav, but have made thousands of litres of it and run it in other 4wd and my mate ran it in his STR d22.
And I used it straight 100% never had an issue, my motor ran quieter and cleaner. and when I put the gas (lpg) on, the thing went like a bullet

 

[gazza414]

Re igniting an old thread..anymore news ?

http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/BioFuels.aspx

 

[Old.Tony]

Apart from Nissan still insisting that you can't use ANY amount of biodiesel in ANY diesel vehicle that uses common rail technology, there's no change.

I'm fairly sure that attitude is there to stop the fish-and-chip oil users from clogging up the fuel system with a stray chiko roll or sav. The Australian standards allow up to 5% biodiesel to be added to dino-diesel without telling the customer, so chances are you've been using bio already.

Cynics might argue that this gives Nissan every right to refuse any warranty claim against them for any fault in any part of the fuel system (tank, lines, pump, SCV, rail, injectors) but I'd argue that it's unreasonable to attempt to sell a vehicle in a market where you cannot buy fuel for it.

 

[cv_navara]

Figured I would chime in here as I am looking for a biodiesel source in Victoria. I have run B99 (nearly 100%) in my rig back home in the states for a while with no issues. It has a Nissan SD33 engine (same as patrols in 80s). Only had to replace some rubber hoses with a suitable material which was no dramas but this shouldn't be an issue with B10 or less. Actually, the main fuel lines were already nylon which was great. I bought a navara with the TD27 hoping to run biodiesel but cannot find a source so if anyone knows anything please let me know. Or if anyone wants to talk more about my experiences let me know. Cheers, casey

 

[Old.Tony]

I think Mobil distributes it. Rumour is that tanker drivers mix it when they load up, and put up to 20% bio in their tankers bound for Metro, Liberty, United, 7-Eleven and more. I'm not sure if you can get it yourself - but if yours is a common rail with the high pressure pump and rail, you'd have to find out if the lubricity of the biodiesel is at least similar if not better than the dinosaur version, because the pump etc are lubricated by the diesel (and nothing else).

Home-made might work in the TD27 but could cause a lot of trouble with the CR engines.