D22 runs perfectly. stops and won't start until had a rest, then runs perfectly for 10-15ks please help

[slow learner]

Guys, we are going to crack this I can taste it....

Boogieboots that digital manual would be really awesome.

I have emailed a firm in bayswater that dont have a hone number but specialise in the scanners and have asked for an android compatible version that works on this 2006 ZD30. OBD Australia Home

I will read up one what and where the EGR is and set about checking that.

Update: yesterday after an early morning start with cold ambient temperature she ran for 22min longer than usual
ALSO I was able to restart her after 5.5 hours or 5 hours sooner than normal.



Temperature has to be the or a Factor or constant in initiating the fault or no start / stall.

Remembering that this engine is relatively low ks, absolutely puts when ticking over , starting never smokes and has heaps of power and pull for the the precious 10 ks she can manage.

im onto the EGR for now. Really areciate all the input and collective can do vibe.

 

[Erick]

Stuff of nightmares. I just cross my fingers every time I get in mine. What I have learned about mechanical injector pumps over the years is that they will die under extreme fuel temperature ( I used to have an air cooled tractor) but it is gradual loss of power as fuel gets hotter. And it had to be hot!! VP 44 pumps use diesel fuel to lubricate and cool but there is no way ur fuel is getting hot enough in a few minutes. The test of any Diesel engine is if it starts and runs smoothly from cold. So forget low compression, worn rings, any of that. Any other problem for pump/injectors is noticeable in exhaust-smoke, etc or partial loss of power.
Have u tried taking it to an actual diesel pump repairer, they will hook up to read pressure and delivery in real time. Takes care of wondering if it’s some weird intermittent fault there, which is way down in my list of probables.

 

[Hopeless]

Eric - sadly I have to agree. Two of the three mechanics that have looked at my Navara have said that the pump is the most likely culprit. I have checked after the weekend and (with the line detached to the injectors) fuel is coming out of the injector outlet (and from the pump back to the tank) with the priming pump at the filter but not with cranking. Fuel does go back to the tank from the injector pump with cranking but not to the injectors (ie no pressure) which does not make a lot of sense to me.

A month ago (according to the mechanic) fuel was going to the injectors at unknown pressure so things have got worse.

Unplugging the NPS if I have the right one made no difference

My last shot before calling the wreckers or putting it up for parts is the injectors pressure bypass valve and then I need to move on with my life. The D22 has only done 190k so compression etc should be fine.

I will keep updated.

 

[slow learner]

Hopeless, I am intrigued, reading back to your first post you describe a similar situation to mine. now if yours starts and runs (at all) then have you timed how long?

I just can not believe that a engine that starts every morning and runs with heaps of power and zero smoke, is ready for the scrap yard. Not sure where you are located but before you scrap it how about we go halves on a pump from a scrappy. fit it to yours and if that works fit it to mine or visa versa.

from there we could re sell the scrap yard pump and pay to recondition the pumps we have Knowing they are to blame.

just an idea, Im gonna (once i get this NDS1 NISSAN SCAN App working with my android device) go back through every electrical plug in and fuse and clean and check contacts for any heat damage.

Leave the small violins in their cases for now but I am too broke to wave goodbye to this Baby yet and please hang in there and lets get yours sailing again too.

 

[redkite]

Are you sure your ECU is ok?

Just had an experience with my 2004 ZD30 D22: After getting the cab flooded the engine wouldn't start anymore (it had quit on the highway, no smoke, no shudder, just sudden loss of all power).

After cleaning (and drying) the ECU, it ran again like nothing happenned.

Check your ECU, it's a lot cheaper (and easier to access) than the injectionpump.
The ECU in the ZD30 is not tied to any car-specific info, you can swap it withthe same type without issues.

 

[Erick]

Hopeless, get ur d22 to an actual diesel pump repairer/diagnostic place. Even if u have to tow it. They will let u know pretty quick what is going on if they are any good. Getting ECU checked is a must as well. Ur year model is relatively simple compared to later.

 

[slow learner]

Little Update for the thread: Got the ECU Talk cable plugged into OTG and Android smart phone to NDS1 app. bingo!!

At first three codes 73: p3-pump comm line (started 19 times with this fault) 13: coolant temp sensor (started 2 times with this fault) 95: Turbo pressure (car started 37 times with this fault)

I cleared them and none have come back just the 55: No faults

unsure about the Turbo or comm line but I did unplug and start her with the temp sensor unplugged.

So with this app running I have the engine water temp... this ZD30 will start provided the temp reading is 30 or below. It will then run until its at 82, or 75 -85 then stops.

It may have been Old Tony that suggested using the hose pipe to cool stuff down and see if she restarts. that works!!!

Today I will cool only the temp sensor and check she restarts.

Only started all this cooling and temp measuring yesterday so yesterday I cooled the whole engine from 80 down to 30 including the VP44 Today I wont cool the VP44 and god willing she starts putting the fault on the sensor, ECU, thermostat or possibly just the sensor.

Can any of you blokes see why the engine would cut out at 80 degrees water temp..... ( its reeking of thermostat, still the temp gauge is just below half way...........


should add that it may be the VP44 that needs cooling, in order for her to start and that could be a more painful ball ache scenario. I have emailed the local experts for quotes to replace , recon. I will put that quote on forum when it arrives.

 

[Old.Tony]

It wasn't me that suggested it, I won't take any credit for that!

Let's see how it goes with just the temperature sensor being cooled. If that works, I would take a punt that the glow plugs are being switched off causing it to not ignite the fuel properly.

If that's the case, the next test should be a compression test.

If cooling the sensor alone doesn't work, but cooling the pump does, then it does look like the pump is at fault. If you're game, you could try tearing yours down and rebuilding it.

 

[slow learner]

So today I started her easily and let her run up to 82 degrees water temp at that point she just dies,

Took the hose pipe and run it over the the VP44 fuel pump watched the engine water temp at the same time with the ECU talk.

this time with the water cooling from the hose directed straight to the VP44 she started again within 5minutes the engine water temp (measured withECU talk) was at 70 degrees.

Conclusion: as Temperature increase in either the engine or the fuel or the VP44 "something" is shutting down.

as restarting and driving can be achieved by physically cooling the VP44 and she runs well until the 82 degrees is reached It would be good to hear from the forum as to what could cause a shut off from a increase in either water or fuel temp or VP44 temp increase..

I will keep googling but haven't found this exact fault as of yet.

 

[Old.Tony]

You could try disconnecting the coolant temperature sensor. This stops the ECU from knowing how hot the engine is (hey, all our cars used to be like that!) but might also stop the car from running - I'm not sure if the coolant temp is used for anything specific other than coil power and aircon compressor activity.

If the car starts with the temperature sensor disconnected, try driving it normally (not too hard, you don't want to overheat it!) and see if it stops.

If the car does NOT stop, I'd suspect it's turning off the glows and the fuel is unable to be ignited - which is a sign of low compression.

If the car DOES stop, the pump is likely to be faulty and either internally sensing an overtemp and shutting down (it does have some electronics in it) or something's expanding past its tolerance and causing it to sieze (which can't be good).

It might just be the electronic circuitry on the VP44. There's 3, from memory, and they all come off fairly easily (once the pump is on a bench). If it's just the electronics, I would wonder if they can't be replaced easily?

 

[tweak'e]

if cooling the injection pump with a water hose enables it to start, then its probably got the common transistor chip/connection problem.
normally when they fail they are completely dead. but sometimes they crack and open up when it heats up. i think there is a few videos around of them removing the chip including a hack repair job.

so basically its pump recondition time. a new ecu comes with the kit and they upgrade the internals as well. just sucks its so $$$$$$.

 

[slow learner]

Tweake, Old Tony, Cheers for replies.

Electronics can be problematic when water is involved, strange that applying water is allowing this unit to work perfectly.

I might strip it and investigate but will pitch this issue out to the fuel pump specialists in the US and see whats possible or if a replacement is the only way out.

especially odd that the ECU talk hasn't registered a fault code unless that was the 73: P3 Pump comm line.

I will keep this tread alive until the day the large lady starts to sing.


Thanks again.

 

[Hopeless]

back from some time away.

My fault codes do no include the pump either. Went to the local wrecker and they will sell me a pump for $1.000 with no guarantee. The D22 it is from had the engine stripped down by a local workshop for not starting. According to the wrecker they did not find the problem so the owner sold to a wrecker to recoup some of the costs. So he assumes the pump is ok. The story terrified me.

The best i can find for a refurbished replacement ($2500) is through SA: Nissan Patrol 3.0L ZD30 VP44 pump 109342-4050/ Nissan 16700-VX100 - $2499! | eBay . Fitting costs added to this. I have fitted a pump to a 1963 Massey Ferguson tractor but that was child play (if working on a Pommie engine can be called that)- think this may be beyond me. Still have the D22. Still contemplating my navel. Have to add now a years rego on so giving the car a value of $8k it becomes line ball without a guaranteed outcome.

I am tempted to go down the 1K do it myself line but anyone know how big a job this is?


thanks to all for comment and advice. Good luck Slow learner.

 

[Boogieboots]

Been a while did it and posted an in depth account as I recall. Not an easy job but doable with the tools and correct info.
It does seem that a ZD30 that would not start may have had a dodgy pump...

 

[slow learner]

contacted Allied diesel in wangarra today. as well as hi tech diesel in SA (yeah i called the 08 prefix thinking it was Perth)

The Bloke at Allied diesel was sound, I told him the fault and he didnt try to flog me a pump instead he was adamant he knew the fault. and told me to blank off the ERG as that piping was heating up the pump... sounded a bit to simple to be true but being a simple scaffolder I dashed to the ERG pulled out the gasket and made a blank. The guy from Allied spoke of some further blanking that i missed as I couldn't write it down fast enough it..

anyhow I tried it with the ERG blanked off at the single place and she ran fine until that magic 82 degrees then stopped.

After I wiped away a few tears I considered that I would just for peace of mind change the thermostat and water temp sensor.

when I went to undo the lower thermostat 12mm bolt it was completely rounded and corroded!!! I will assume the previous owner went to change it , rounded it and left it.

Have bought a funky socket that will hopefully remove it, and have the sensor out. will change them both all being well and report back.

if that fails I will contact the Allied Diesel Bloke again and see if i should make any more mods ....

Hopeless I learnt from the SA Mob that they wanted 10 hours for the pump change ( and you would think they know all the tricks) they charge 2750 plus postage to send a ready (recon) pump to your door they want the old pump or its an extra 900.




Allied said he would charge 6 hours @ 130 + 2665 + tax thats fitted for 3,575+ tax


Will continue trying every possibility before that.

 

[slow learner]

Also: I measured the temp directly at the fuel pump when she stops with a digital thermometer gun. 33 degrees. the block was reading 72 and the water according to the ECU talk was 82 degrees.

this is the bit that I cant fathom, that 33 degrees is an average summer day temp and no way hot enough to constitute 'high" temp as far as VP44 pump electronics failing.

Breathe in! Breathe out.......

 

[Old.Tony]

Did you try running it with the coolant sensor disconnected?

 

[Hopeless]

The way my diesel mechanic relative explained to me was the pump failed at temperature due to the diesel 'thinning" as it heated and the fine tolerance the pump operated at meant it failed to achieve compression - which it could achieve when cold. Otherwise I have no idea.

Of course mine does not start at all now. Explained to me as the pump deteriorating. This seems to be an ok explanation of my situation but yours is still going so there may be different but related things going on for our D22.

 

[tweak'e]

Also: I measured the temp directly at the fuel pump when she stops with a digital thermometer gun. 33 degrees. the block was reading 72 and the water according to the ECU talk was 82 degrees.

this is the bit that I cant fathom, that 33 degrees is an average summer day temp and no way hot enough to constitute 'high" temp as far as VP44 pump electronics failing.

Breathe in! Breathe out.......

your looking at this back to front. its not outside temps heating the ecu, its the ecu heating itself. i suspect its the chip inside thats heating up and failing.

 

[slow learner]

Tweake do you mean the chip in the main ECU or the chip in the VP44 pump. sorry if im not getting it.

Tony it will start with temp sensor un plugged (idles slightly higher) I replaced old for new yesterday. that sensor dose not affect the temp gauge

She always stops /cuts off at 82 degrees. Some Thermostats open at 82 degrees would the ECU know if the thermostat was not opening early enough and cut off fuel?

went to change thermostat yesterday.

like a goose I unbolted the top hose expecting to see the thermostat staring at me! never mind its bolted back up and will attempt to change it today at some stage in the harder to reach lower hose position.

IF this makes no difference then its either try a new ECU or its the 3.5k - 4 k for this pump change out.

according to google the value on trade in for a 2006 NN ZD30 in fair condition is $5.5k.....

The ZD30 has only got 160k on the clock... im thinking out loud...

ill crack on and see what else can be eradicated from the potential cause list.